MBA Bocconi, Frankfurt school of Management or Mannheim BS

JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 10:50

Hi everyone

I am in the process of applying to the parr-time MBA of these 3 schools. I work in a big tech company in Germany but I would see an MBA also as a possibility to explore a more international market.
Ideally i would love to keep my big tech companies track though.

I had a very positive impression about Frankfurt school, but I see it scores worse in ranking, especially for MBA. Bocconi is definitely the best of the three in terms of rankings, but so much focused on Italian market (i’m Italian btw, but being a woman my career chances in italy are unfortunately pretty weak...).
Mannheim seems the most solid BS in Germany and have more tech alumni, but it seemed to me a bit less international than Frankfurt.

What is your opinion on these 3 schools? Do you share my impressions?

Any feedback very much appreciated,
Thanks

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 07, 2021 11:44

I think you mean 'lower', not 'worse'. Frankfurt isn't falling. It's just a younger player in the MBA market and, of course, a smaller player than Bocconi University.

Start from your goals. In the countries you are targeting, where do tech firms recruit from? In terms of MBAs, it's certainly ESMT, Frankfurt, Insead, Mannheim and WHU. Leading state universities like Technical University of Munich, University of Stuttgart, Technische Universität Berlin and the FAU Erlangen-Nürnberg have bigger networks but are less well known internationally.

Since you are starting with Germany, Mannheim is the obvious choice (maybe the Mannheim-Essec programme, for a more international network). It has a bigger international network than Frankfurt. It's a more prestigious school and, as a full-service university, also has graduates from tech degrees all through in the IT sector. If the international market is more English-speaking, consider the WHU-Kellogg EMBA.

I think you mean 'lower', not 'worse'. Frankfurt isn't falling. It's just a younger player in the MBA market and, of course, a smaller player than Bocconi University. Start from your goals. In the countries you are targeting, where do tech firms recruit from? In terms of MBAs, it's certainly ESMT, Frankfurt, Insead, Mannheim and WHU. Leading state universities like Technical University of Munich, University of Stuttgart, Technische Universität Berlin and the FAU Erlangen-Nürnberg have bigger networks but are less well known internationally. Since you are starting with Germany, Mannheim is the obvious choice (maybe the Mannheim-Essec programme, for a more international network). It has a bigger international network than Frankfurt. It's a more prestigious school and, as a full-service university, also has graduates from tech degrees all through in the IT sector. If the international market is more English-speaking, consider the WHU-Kellogg EMBA.

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 11:56

I think you mean 'lower', not 'worse'. Frankfurt isn't falling. It's just a younger player in the MBA market and, of course, a smaller player than Bocconi University.

Start from your goals. In the countries you are targeting, where do tech firms recruit from? In terms of MBAs, it's certainly ESMT, Frankfurt, Insead, Mannheim and WHU. Leading state universities like Technical University of Munich, University of Stuttgart, Technische Universität Berlin and the FAU Erlangen-Nürnberg have bigger networks but are less well known internationally.

Since you are starting with Germany, Mannheim is the obvious choice (maybe the Mannheim-Essec programme, for a more international network). It has a bigger international network than Frankfurt. It's a more prestigious school and, as a full-service university, also has graduates from tech degrees all through in the IT sector. If the international market is more English-speaking, consider the WHU-Kellogg EMBA.

Yes I meant scores lower, which implies it might be worse, even though I know rankings are not everything. I know the school is younger, this is why I am considering it as a valid competitor to Mannheim, which gave me the feeling of being more traditional and management-based, and with a very german market network. But you're actually pointing out that Mannheim is more international. WHU is not triple-accredited so I don't consider it (not AMBA-accredited but a local german accreditation instead). In my opinion, Frankfurt might have the ability to rise and become more international in the future, as it is a fast-growing institution, but again, this is more a bet. Currently, I agree Mannheim seems more relevant, I had the feeling though it is a pretty traditional mindset school. And how would you see a Bocconi MBA value in Germany? Thank you :)

[quote]I think you mean 'lower', not 'worse'. Frankfurt isn't falling. It's just a younger player in the MBA market and, of course, a smaller player than Bocconi University. Start from your goals. In the countries you are targeting, where do tech firms recruit from? In terms of MBAs, it's certainly ESMT, Frankfurt, Insead, Mannheim and WHU. Leading state universities like Technical University of Munich, University of Stuttgart, Technische Universität Berlin and the FAU Erlangen-Nürnberg have bigger networks but are less well known internationally. Since you are starting with Germany, Mannheim is the obvious choice (maybe the Mannheim-Essec programme, for a more international network). It has a bigger international network than Frankfurt. It's a more prestigious school and, as a full-service university, also has graduates from tech degrees all through in the IT sector. If the international market is more English-speaking, consider the WHU-Kellogg EMBA.  [/quote] Yes I meant scores lower, which implies it might be worse, even though I know rankings are not everything. I know the school is younger, this is why I am considering it as a valid competitor to Mannheim, which gave me the feeling of being more traditional and management-based, and with a very german market network. But you're actually pointing out that Mannheim is more international. WHU is not triple-accredited so I don't consider it (not AMBA-accredited but a local german accreditation instead). In my opinion, Frankfurt might have the ability to rise and become more international in the future, as it is a fast-growing institution, but again, this is more a bet. Currently, I agree Mannheim seems more relevant, I had the feeling though it is a pretty traditional mindset school. And how would you see a Bocconi MBA value in Germany? Thank you :)

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 07, 2021 12:47

AACSB and EQUIS accredition are the gold standard: AMBA is easier. It makes no sense to exclude WHU on that basis. Frankfurt will certainly become more international, but it won't have overtaken Mannheim or WHU by the time you retire. It's not so much that it's growing faster, but it's growing its provision in the English language. It's older than WHU, and has deep roots in the Frankfurt banking sector. I'm not sure that any of these schools is notably more or less traditional: they recruit faculty from the same leading-edge schools. Insofar as Mannheim and WHU are heavyweight research schools, they will be more advanced.

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 07, 2021 12:50

A former colleague of mine did her MBA at SDA Bocconi, and she found that it just wasn't highly valued or well-known *in Germany*. UniCredit, as an Italian bank that bought a German bank, is the biggest employer of Bocconiani in Germany.

[Edited by Duncan on May 07, 2021]

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 13:05

A former colleague of mine did her MBA at SDA Bocconi, and she found that it just wasn't highly valued or well-known *in Germany*. UniCredit, as an Italian bank that bought a German bank, is the biggest employer of Bocconiani in Germany.

yes, which makes it of no value to me as I'm not finance related :D

[quote]A former colleague of mine did her MBA at SDA Bocconi, and she found that it just wasn't highly valued or well-known *in Germany*. UniCredit, as an Italian bank that bought a German bank, is the biggest employer of Bocconiani in Germany.  [/quote] yes, which makes it of no value to me as I'm not finance related  :D

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 13:08

AACSB and EQUIS accredition are the gold standard: AMBA is easier. It makes no sense to exclude WHU on that basis. Frankfurt will certainly become more international, but it won't have overtaken Mannheim or WHU by the time you retire. It's not so much that it's growing faster, but it's growing its provision in the English language. It's older than WHU, and has deep roots in the Frankfurt banking sector. I'm not sure that any of these schools is notably more or less traditional: they recruit faculty from the same leading-edge schools. Insofar as Mannheim and WHU are heavyweight research schools, they will be more advanced.

yes maybe, but if a school is not triple-accredited, it is not. And if what everyone is looking for in an MBA is triple accreditation as quality assurance, then this school has something less compared to the others (I am not saying it isn't good, but if I have to choose between 3 good options, then maybe this is a good rejection criteria imo). So at the end of the story, you would see Mannheim as a stronger school and network than Frankfurt if I understood correctly? But Frankfurt as a potentially more international one? Thank you :)

[quote]AACSB and EQUIS accredition are the gold standard: AMBA is easier. It makes no sense to exclude WHU on that basis. Frankfurt will certainly become more international, but it won't have overtaken Mannheim or WHU by the time you retire. It's not so much that it's growing faster, but it's growing its provision in the English language. It's older than WHU, and has deep roots in the Frankfurt banking sector. I'm not sure that any of these schools is notably more or less traditional: they recruit faculty from the same leading-edge schools. Insofar as Mannheim and WHU are heavyweight research schools, they will be more advanced.  [/quote] yes maybe, but if a school is not triple-accredited, it is not. And if what everyone is looking for in an MBA is triple accreditation as quality assurance, then this school has something less compared to the others (I am not saying it isn't good, but if I have to choose between 3 good options, then maybe this is a  good rejection criteria imo). So at the end of the story, you would see Mannheim as a stronger school and network than Frankfurt if I understood correctly? But Frankfurt as a potentially more international one? Thank you :)

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 07, 2021 13:18

Well, not everyone is looking for triple accreditation. It's a signal to help international applicants, so it matters for schools that need extra effort to recruit foreign students. AACSB is higher and much more demanding *than AMBA, by a long way*. It's a school-wide quality check, unlike AMBA. If a school can pass AACSB or EQUIS, then it's going to pass AMBA. However, applicants have to start from their goals. Which school has the best network in the places where you want to work? LinkedIn has the answer.

Mannehim is, obviously, stronger than Frankfurt. It's certainly the school's top business school, and the most selective. It's arguably the country's top full-service university (i.e. outside the technical universities). The Frankfurt School will never have a bigger or better brand internationally than Mannheim but in certain areas, like the reputation of its academic research on finance, it can certainly compete.

[Edited by Duncan on May 07, 2021]

Well, not everyone is looking for triple accreditation. It's a signal to help international applicants, so it matters for schools that need extra effort to recruit foreign students. AACSB is higher and much more demanding *than AMBA, by a long way*. It's a school-wide quality check, unlike AMBA. If a school can pass AACSB or EQUIS, then it's going to pass AMBA. However, applicants have to start from their goals. Which school has the best network in the places where you want to work? LinkedIn has the answer.  Mannehim is, obviously, stronger than Frankfurt. It's certainly the school's top business school, and the most selective. It's arguably the country's top full-service university (i.e. outside the technical universities). The Frankfurt School will never have a bigger or better brand internationally than Mannheim but in certain areas, like the reputation of its academic research on finance, it can certainly compete.

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 13:25

Well, not everyone is looking for triple accreditation. It's a signal to help international applicants, so it matters for schools that need extra effort to recruit foreign students. AACSB is higher and much more demanding *than AMBA, by a long way*. It's a school-wide quality check, unlike AMBA. If a school can pass AACSB or EQUIS, then it's going to pass AMBA. However, applicants have to start from their goals. Which school has the best network in the places where you want to work? LinkedIn has the answer.

Mannehim is, obviously, stronger than Frankfurt. It's certainly the school's top business school, and the most selective. It's arguably the country's top full-service university (i.e. outside the technical universities). The Frankfurt School will never have a bigger or better brand internationally than Mannheim but in certain areas, like the reputation of its academic research on finance, it can certainly compete.

I disagree on the accreditations, but anyways. You made a point with the comparison with Mannheim and Frankfurt. I had the opposite feeling Mannheim was a very "local" and more national business school. So I will at least give it a try with the application process. Thank you for all your insights, very much appreciated :)

[quote]Well, not everyone is looking for triple accreditation. It's a signal to help international applicants, so it matters for schools that need extra effort to recruit foreign students. AACSB is higher and much more demanding *than AMBA, by a long way*. It's a school-wide quality check, unlike AMBA. If a school can pass AACSB or EQUIS, then it's going to pass AMBA. However, applicants have to start from their goals. Which school has the best network in the places where you want to work? LinkedIn has the answer.  Mannehim is, obviously, stronger than Frankfurt. It's certainly the school's top business school, and the most selective. It's arguably the country's top full-service university (i.e. outside the technical universities). The Frankfurt School will never have a bigger or better brand internationally than Mannheim but in certain areas, like the reputation of its academic research on finance, it can certainly compete.  [/quote] I disagree on the accreditations, but anyways. You made a point with the comparison with Mannheim and Frankfurt. I had the opposite feeling Mannheim was a very "local" and more national business school. So I will at least give it a try with the application process. Thank you for all your insights, very much appreciated :)

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 07, 2021 13:38

I don't know if you have any familiarity with how the accreditations are given, or the work involved in gaining and maintaining them. Nothing I have said is mistaken, as far as I can see, so I don't see what there is to disagree with. Is Frankfurt really a stronger institution than ESCP or Harvard business schools, just because it has triple crowns?

You can use LinkedIn to compare where the alumni of these schools are. Half of Mannheim Business School alumni are outside Germany, compared to one third of Frankfurt alumni.

[Edited by Duncan on May 09, 2021]

I don't know if you have any familiarity with how the accreditations are given, or the work involved in gaining and maintaining them. Nothing I have said is mistaken, as far as I can see, so I don't see what there is to disagree with. Is Frankfurt really a stronger institution than ESCP or Harvard business schools, just because it has triple crowns?  You can use LinkedIn to compare where the alumni of these schools are. Half of Mannheim Business School alumni are outside Germany, compared to one third of Frankfurt alumni.

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 13:47

I don't know if you have any familiarity with how the accreditations are given, or the work involved in gaining and maintaining them. Nothing I have said is mistaken, as far as I can see, so I don't see what there is to disagree with. Is Frankfurt really a stronger institution than ESCP or Harvard business schools, just because it has triple crowns?

You can use LinkedIn to compare where the alumni of these schools are. Half of Mannheim Business School alumni are outside Germany, compared to one third of Frankfurth alumni.

I disagree with the fact that the triple accreditation is made with the only purpose/need to attract foreigners, I don't see it like that, aka I disagree with you. Yes, I know accreditations cost time and money, but business schools do too. Harvard doesn't count obviously, we are on a different level. ESTM and Frankfurt are both triple accredited. But you made your point loud and clear in terms of your opinion about the 2 schools. Thank you

[quote]I don't know if you have any familiarity with how the accreditations are given, or the work involved in gaining and maintaining them. Nothing I have said is mistaken, as far as I can see, so I don't see what there is to disagree with. Is Frankfurt really a stronger institution than ESCP or Harvard business schools, just because it has triple crowns?  You can use LinkedIn to compare where the alumni of these schools are. Half of Mannheim Business School alumni are outside Germany, compared to one third of Frankfurth alumni.  [/quote]  I disagree with the fact that the triple accreditation is made with the only purpose/need to attract foreigners, I don't see it like that, aka I disagree with you. Yes, I know accreditations cost time and money, but business schools do too. Harvard doesn't count obviously, we are on a different level.  ESTM and Frankfurt are both triple accredited. But you made your point loud and clear in terms of your opinion about the 2 schools. Thank you

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 07, 2021 13:56

I would also disagree with the idea that the triple accreditation is made with the **only** purpose/need to attract foreigners, I don't see it like that either. And, of course, that is not the point I made. So, I am struggling to see what you really disagree with. Are you sure you are not just rationalising a dislike of Mannheim?

PS ESCP seems like a great comparison: a fairly new player in the English-language market for full-time MBAs. It's obviously able to win AMBA accredition (Indeed, it had it and didn't reapply). Is it really worse than Frankfurt?

[Edited by Duncan on May 07, 2021]

I would also disagree with the idea that the triple accreditation is made with the **only** purpose/need to attract foreigners, I don't see it like that either. And, of course, that is not the point I made. So, I am struggling to see what you really disagree with. Are you sure you are not just rationalising a dislike of Mannheim?  PS ESCP seems like a great comparison: a fairly new player in the English-language market for full-time MBAs. It's obviously able to win AMBA accredition (Indeed, it had it and didn't reapply). Is it really worse than Frankfurt?

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 14:00

I would also disagree with the idea that the triple accreditation is made with the **only** purpose/need to attract foreigners, I don't see it like that either. And, of course, that is not the point I made. So, I am struggling to see what you really disagree with. Are you sure you are not just rationalising a dislike of Mannheim?

ahaaha maybe I am just rationalising the fact that I don't want to spend my spring/summer to prepare the GMAT :P That might be it. I more likely just misunderstood you point (regarding the accreditations). But I got very clear the point that you consider Mannheim far above Frankfurt.
Yes but unfortunately full-time MBA is not an option to me, ESMT has an 80% online part time MBA only, but I value much more f2f education...especially when it comes with these fees!!!

[Edited by JL85 on May 07, 2021]

[quote]I would also disagree with the idea that the triple accreditation is made with the **only** purpose/need to attract foreigners, I don't see it like that either. And, of course, that is not the point I made. So, I am struggling to see what you really disagree with. Are you sure you are not just rationalising a dislike of Mannheim?  [/quote] ahaaha maybe I am just rationalising the fact that I don't want to spend my spring/summer to prepare the GMAT :P That might be it. I more likely just misunderstood you point (regarding the accreditations). But I got very clear the point that you consider Mannheim far above Frankfurt.  Yes but unfortunately full-time MBA is not an option to me, ESMT has an 80% online part time MBA only, but I value much more f2f education...especially when it comes with these fees!!!

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 07, 2021 16:05

I would also consider the other part-time options: HHL (Cologne, Leipzig, Munich) and IESE in Munich.

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 07, 2021 16:33

I would also consider the other part-time options: HHL (Cologne, Leipzig, Munich) and IESE in Munich.

IESE tuition fee is nearly my early income. I can’t afford that and I don’t have the mindset of paying study loans for a lifetime. HHL part-time MBA is only in Leipzig, a city I personally don’t see any good reason to look at from a business perspective. I would rather chose Milan in that case ???? also the school doesn’t seem like one could compete with Frankfurt or Mannheim tbh

[quote]I would also consider the other part-time options: HHL (Cologne, Leipzig, Munich) and IESE in Munich. [/quote] IESE tuition fee is nearly my early income. I can’t afford that and I don’t have the mindset of paying study loans for a lifetime. HHL part-time MBA is only in Leipzig, a city I personally  don’t see any good reason to look at from a business perspective. I would rather chose Milan in that case ???? also the school doesn’t seem like one could compete with Frankfurt or Mannheim tbh

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 22, 2021 10:37

Well, not everyone is looking for triple accreditation. It's a signal to help international applicants, so it matters for schools that need extra effort to recruit foreign students. AACSB is higher and much more demanding *than AMBA, by a long way*. It's a school-wide quality check, unlike AMBA. If a school can pass AACSB or EQUIS, then it's going to pass AMBA. However, applicants have to start from their goals. Which school has the best network in the places where you want to work? LinkedIn has the answer.

Mannehim is, obviously, stronger than Frankfurt. It's certainly the school's top business school, and the most selective. It's arguably the country's top full-service university (i.e. outside the technical universities). The Frankfurt School will never have a bigger or better brand internationally than Mannheim but in certain areas, like the reputation of its academic research on finance, it can certainly compete.

AMBA is an accreditation for the MBA programs the other two for the school itself. So i am wondering if it could be the case that WHU is a good business school for other offerings but quite weak in terms of MBA. Which would be in line with what I read in other posts about WHU MBAs being more of a master than an MBA. Any opinion on this?

[quote]Well, not everyone is looking for triple accreditation. It's a signal to help international applicants, so it matters for schools that need extra effort to recruit foreign students. AACSB is higher and much more demanding *than AMBA, by a long way*. It's a school-wide quality check, unlike AMBA. If a school can pass AACSB or EQUIS, then it's going to pass AMBA. However, applicants have to start from their goals. Which school has the best network in the places where you want to work? LinkedIn has the answer.  Mannehim is, obviously, stronger than Frankfurt. It's certainly the school's top business school, and the most selective. It's arguably the country's top full-service university (i.e. outside the technical universities). The Frankfurt School will never have a bigger or better brand internationally than Mannheim but in certain areas, like the reputation of its academic research on finance, it can certainly compete.  [/quote] AMBA is an accreditation for the MBA programs the other two for the school itself. So i am wondering if it could be the case that WHU is a good business school for other offerings but quite weak in terms of MBA. Which would be in line with what I read in other posts about WHU MBAs being more of a master than an MBA. Any opinion on this?

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 22, 2021 12:30

When you see schools get their triple crown, they will normally have gained AMBA accreditation first, since that's easier. WHU is the highest-ranked [full-time] MBA in Germany, so I don't think you should seriously worry that the MBA is weak. ESMT, Frankfurt, HHL, Mannehim, and WHU are all strong schools. They do each, however, attract different sorts of students and feed them into different roles. Your opportunity is to find the best school to carry you best towards your goal.

[Edited by Duncan on May 22, 2021]

When you see schools get their triple crown, they will normally have gained AMBA accreditation first, since that's easier. WHU is the highest-ranked [full-time] MBA in Germany, so I don't think you should seriously worry that the MBA is weak.  ESMT, Frankfurt, HHL, Mannehim, and WHU are all strong schools. They do each, however, attract different sorts of students and feed them into different roles. Your opportunity is to find the best school to carry you best towards your goal.  

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JL85

13 26

Posted May 22, 2021 13:02

When you see schools get their triple crown, they will normally have gained AMBA accreditation first, since that's easier. WHU is the highest-ranked [full-time] MBA in Germany, so I don't think you should seriously worry that the MBA is weak. ESMT, Frankfurt, HHL, Mannehim, and WHU are all strong schools. They do each, however, attract different sorts of students and feed them into different roles. Your opportunity is to find the best school to carry you best towards your goal.

My target are mainly tech, IT companies or to a broader extent industry and not consultancy or banking. Under this light I would see Mannheim, WHU, Frankfurt in this order. So after my research I would see Mennheim as industry oriented, WHU i don’t get it but I got from a colleague the feedback it is more consultancy oriented (which i assume would also make it a strong MBA actually as consulting firms are very picky:D), and Frankfurt I don’t get it, finance oriented for sure, but the MBA? Generalist? I also see salaries after MBA (not EMBA) in Frank are pretty low compared to others and to my current situation. Would you agree from an industry point of view Mannheim would be a good option?

[quote]When you see schools get their triple crown, they will normally have gained AMBA accreditation first, since that's easier. WHU is the highest-ranked [full-time] MBA in Germany, so I don't think you should seriously worry that the MBA is weak.  ESMT, Frankfurt, HHL, Mannehim, and WHU are all strong schools. They do each, however, attract different sorts of students and feed them into different roles. Your opportunity is to find the best school to carry you best towards your goal.   [/quote] My target are mainly tech, IT companies or to a broader extent industry and not consultancy or banking. Under this light I would see Mannheim, WHU, Frankfurt in this order. So after my research I would see Mennheim as industry  oriented, WHU i don’t get it but I got from a colleague the feedback it is more consultancy oriented (which i assume would also make it a strong MBA actually as consulting firms are very picky:D), and Frankfurt I don’t get it, finance oriented for sure, but the MBA? Generalist? I also see salaries after MBA (not EMBA)  in Frank are pretty low compared to others and to my current situation. Would you agree from an industry point of view Mannheim would be a good option?

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted May 22, 2021 18:39

Mannheim and WHU are both great. Mannheim students are stronger academically and have more acculturation. WHU students have made more career progress, and are more international. If you speak German on the way in, Mannheim is a no-brainer. If not, WHU has better career services.

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