To Adriana_Garcia,

I'm going to be quite clear about this. Outside of Columbia and NYU in New York City, St. John's is the next strongest program (Cornell would be 3rd, if the focus was on New York State). You need to take a hard look at each school's infrastructure, as well as media ranking and other information. This is about making an informed decision. Hofstra would have a pretty difficult time competing against Seton Hall, let alone St. John's or Fordham. If possible, it is strongly recommended that you pay a visit or two to each school under consideration, so as to gain an accurate perception of which candidate schools should remain as targets.

G3XL

PS - Again, to remind poster jcohen, Hofstra is not on the level of Fordham, let alone St. John's. Don't believe me? Then read this and see if you can find Hofstra mentioned anywhere in this NYU Stern article about New York business schools:

http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/news/news/2003/august/0804crainsny.html

<blockquote>So you'd actually say Hofstra is the best of all NY schools, better than Columbia, Cornell, Fordham, and NYU? Or did I get you wrong there..
</blockquote>

I don't want to sound rude, but this questions shows that you have not done any serious research about American business schools so far. I would not only rely on message boards like this before making choices on where to spend your 60k. Boards like this may be useful to make an informed decision, but they cannot replace your own research. You should look at rankings such as the one mentioned on this site, take a close look at the university websites, talk to alumni, talk to your professors, colleagues etc. etc.

Thank your for your warning Malia. Of course, I will do a different type of research than just the info at this board, I know it is very subjective.
The setence you quote by me was meant in a different way though, I was very surprised that someone would name Hoftra as n°1, that's why I double checked

<blockquote>Thank your for your warning Malia. Of course, I will do a different type of research than just the info at this board, I know it is very subjective.
The setence you quote by me was meant in a different way though, I was very surprised that someone would name Hoftra as n°1, that's why I double checked </blockquote>

I did not name Hofstra #1
please re-read prior posts.

Once again and for the last time!

FIRST TIER IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK
NYU and COlumbia (Cornell,Rochester- upstate, not NYC)

then Hofstra, Fordham

then St Johns, Baruch, Pace ...

I guess we can chose five MBA school in Manhattan.
1. Columbia
2. NYU
3. St. Johns (Manhattan Campus)
4. Fordham
5. Cuny Baruch
I ask my friend who goes to Fordham, she told me we can select Forham's MBA program not only at Bronx but also at Manhattan campus. Cuny Barch is located at around 23rd st. Pretty nice location. St. John's manhattan campus is located at near TriBeCa. Hofstra is located very far from Manhattan....

<blockquote>I guess we can chose five MBA school in Manhattan.
1. Columbia
2. NYU
3. St. Johns (Manhattan Campus)
4. Fordham
5. Cuny Baruch
I ask my friend who goes to Fordham, she told me we can select Forham's MBA program not only at Bronx but also at Manhattan campus. Cuny Barch is located at around 23rd st. Pretty nice location. St. John's manhattan campus is located at near TriBeCa. Hofstra is located very far from Manhattan....

</blockquote>

Hofstra is about 30-40 min by train to Penn Station (34th St/Broadway),depending on where you live in Manhattan, if you do good luck with rent payments. it might take you similiar amount of time to arrive at other schools by subway...

Bottom line is this you want Manhattan/Wall Street connections you dont necessarily want to live there as it is ridiculously expensive and you still have to use subway to move around manhattan. Recent wall street boom has pushed apartment vacancy to near zero, and you have to compete with 10 young investment bankers for anything decent showing up. You are better off in the suburbs, Hofstra, enjoying the campus life and hopping on a train if you want to go to the city. Once again every major wall street firm recruits at Hofstra, the only thing you will be missing there is the NYC rat race, and headaches when you hand over your rent $$.

On a sidenote there is no way you can rank St. Johns ahead of Fordham...

<blockquote>To Adriana_Garcia,

I'm going to be quite clear about this. Outside of Columbia and NYU in New York City, St. John's is the next strongest program (Cornell would be 3rd, if the focus was on New York State). You need to take a hard look at each school's infrastructure, as well as media ranking and other information. This is about making an informed decision. Hofstra would have a pretty difficult time competing against Seton Hall, let alone St. John's or Fordham. If possible, it is strongly recommended that you pay a visit or two to each school under consideration, so as to gain an accurate perception of which candidate schools should remain as targets.

G3XL

PS - Again, to remind poster jcohen, Hofstra is not on the level of Fordham, let alone St. John's. Don't believe me? Then read this and see if you can find Hofstra mentioned anywhere in this NYU Stern article about New York business schools:

http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/news/news/2003/august/0804crainsny.html</blockquote>

the article is about strictly NYC schools and is from 2003.

Did you know that Hofstra was part of NYU until 1963?
NYU will never have anything good to say about Hofstra since they separated from them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstra

St. Johns is a joke academically, thats what I have to say about them, if it wasnt for their basketball team playing in madison square garden, nobody would even know they exist......and how about the campus and its location in Jamaica??

I foget to say about Pace. Pace's campus is at Brooklyn Bridge near wall street.
Above I mentioned schools, I don't list according to MBA rank. Hofstra is good? I don't think so compared to Pace and St. Johns.

This message is for the individual pushing Hofstra.

No one from Hofstra should be commenting about St. John's period. Let's see. St. John's owns the School of Risk Management in the Wall Street area of Manhattan, hosts the annual Investment Management Conference (See University of Michigan Ross School of Business web site), recently was paid visits by MIT Atmospheric Prof. Emanuel Kerry, KKR's Henry Kravis (and Joseph Stiglitz in one of the prior Henry George Economics Lecture Series), established the Financial Information Laboratory (will be two labs located in Manhattan and Queens), recently raised the amount of their graduate level Student Management Investment Fund to $1 million, redesigned its MBA program with considerably more strategic and integrative orientation, has a dean with an undergrad and a dual PhD degree from Stanford and UChicago (was on Cornell's faculty for 14 years), recently was ranked in Beyond Grey Pinstripes as one of the top MBA programs for social responsibility, places more of its grads in bulge bracket IB than other regionally ranked programs, and has a higher total and per-capita bschool endowment.

Wait...there's more...St. John's Law is ranked number 4 in NYS in first-time bar passage rates directly behind Cornell, NYU, and Columbia, while Hofstra Law has the worst bar passage rate in NY State (even lower than that of CUNY Law). Again, someone pushing Hofstra has no business criticizing St. John's. In 1963, NYU was not a well known school, and nearly went bankrupt, during the 1970's before their 35 year capital campaign run.

Before you make such comments, you should take a look at the following post from another discussion board:

----------------------------------------
From: Lumberg1
To: bulaien79

Don't know anything about the CIS programs specifically, but in my opinion SJU's reputation is far better than that of Baruch or Hofstra. I may be tainted on the Hofstra side - about 5 or 6 years ago I worked at a firm with this jackass who had an MBA from Hofstra. If it tells you anything, he was working the phones at a brokerage firm making $35 - $45k - not good for someone with an MBA. I had no MBA and a degree in Poli-sci and was making more than him with much more responsibility. I'm sure not everyone from Hofstra is a dolt, but this may be representative of the "Alumni Network" that you'll be looking to for jobs and to make a good impression so employers think favorably about the school. Seems like a long-shot to me.... If the programs are comaprable, go to SJU.
----------------------------------------

Also, Bloomberg terminals don't necessarily add to the quality of a business school. And your emotionally charged assertions about recruiting in IB at Hofstra are highly disputed. The only two regional programs in the New York Metropolitan area that appear consistently on the lists of the IBs are St. John's and Fordham. All the other schools are nationally ranked. Again, the NYSSA every year selects 8 top area business schools for the "Annual Investment Research Challenge": Hofstra has never been selected, while St. John's is selected every year along with schools like Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Rutgers, Yale, and Seton Hall.

I'm sorry but St Johns sucks period.

lets see Mr. Tobin (St Johns), CFO at Chase?
Mr. Zarb (Hofstra), former head of Nasdaq, and current CEO at AIG

Mr. Tobin could be serving lunch to Mr. Zarb in the real world, he could also be serving lunch to Mr. Sodano (current dean of business school at Hofstra, and former head of Amex)

So there it is for the alumni success on Wall Street.

#1 dont just talk, go to career center webpage and look who recruits where.
#2 go on blomberg and look how many senior level Wall Street professionals you will find from each school.

after all you are going to get an MBA to get a job not learn, thats the reality.

Face facts...St. John's is the city's next up and coming business school, and Hofstra (which is garbage nonetheless) is nowhere to be found. And since you incorrectly extrapolate Zarb's position in finance, from a dean's background, it's clear that I won this debate rather easily, based on factual evidence and valid conclusions (about the schools, not the deans). Now that you want to harp on recruiting, here's some food for thought, regarding "the reality":

----------------------------------------------
From: nirbhay
To: Stern1st

I was talking to a friend at JP Morgan yesterday who explained to me their entire recruiting process for banking. Here goes:

They have a list of appx 15 target schools where they actually go on campus to recruit. These schools are: Columbia, NYU, Harvard, Wharton, Univ of Chicago, Kellogg, Dartmouth, Stanford, UCLA, Cornell, Fordham & St. John's Univ (Obviously, I'm missing a few names, but you get the picture). Fordham & St. John's are local New York schools with strong alumni bases in finance and banking, and a few of their alums are fairly high up in the food chain in banking. Recruiting deadlines for summer internships for these 10 schools are in end Nov, early Dec. Offers are made by early Feb. Once this process is completed, any remaining positions are open to all comers. That is when people in third tier schools get a shot at Morgan.
----------------------------------------------

Next time, put your money where your mouth is.

A time will come when people will be judged (and rewarded) in line with their achievement. I have no doubt that Tier 1 schools go after bright minds, however no body has conclusively defined what a bright mind really is. Just because a person might be a type A with photograohic memory, complimented by an internal mind computer to figure out things quickly etc. is that what we call a broght person. How about the almost imobile recluse, slurred speech who see through another person's mind and sees the world quite differently? What I am trying to say, is you are better off at a University that makes you comfortable and fits your character or culture enabling you to be the best sponge that you can be. Comparing schools is a game of the mindless. I have both tier1 and 3rd tier university employees, the only diffrence is tier 1 students are spoiled and think they are destined to be one of the significant C's in an organization.
Our culture is such that we do quiver on site in the presents of a University of Chicago, Columbia, Wharton, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, NYU (Stern), Northwestern (Kellog) etc. These schools are good schools, but there are many other newer (..and perhaps) unknown schools that are excellent too. Have you ever sean the profile of most proffessors at these top Tier Schools? Most of them did not go to Top Tier schools! What does that tell you? Me?, it tellsm me that all universities respect each other and they know what their main purpose in life is. To make money, it is a business folks. You can be a Phd, by educating yourself, travelling the worls understanding cultures etc, but ofcourse no one in the "recognizing business" will recognize you. So of to University you go. But folks don't beat yourseves over the head about NYU, St Johns, Georgetown, Columbia, Harvard etc. are better than the other. Each University has its own credo and values, but they all share one common goal. To get Money through you somehow, now or in future. Education, for the most part is a ripoff. How many of us use that Calculus, or Philosphy, how many even practice their proffession ethically. Think about it. And what is wrong with Basketball, Look at all the economy expansion it brings.
Go North Carolina!!!!

Hello guys, don't get mad at eachother ! ;)
I'm considering to do an MBA in NYC in 2008. As I am not sure whether I can make into the top programs (NYU Stern, CBS) so I plan to apply to some lower ranked schools as well. I would would appreciate if anyone could add some information about Hofstra, Fordham, St. John's, Baruch Zicklin. Has anyone in this board studied at these schools? Thanks

http://www.hofstra.edu/Academics/Colleges/Zarb/index.html
http://www.hofstra.edu/Academics/Business/TradingRoom/index_TradingRoom.cfm

RECRUITING COMPANIES AT HOFSTRA
You wont get the same education at Hofstra compared to NYU or Columbia, but you will get a chance to interview with 80% of the same Wall Street companies on campus. Resume can only get you so far, in fact it can ony get you an opportunity in that interview room. What you do there, how you present yourself, either gets you the job or not.


Selected Employers Visiting Campus in Recent Years

1-800-Flowers.com

ABC Supply Company

Abercrombie & Fitch

Accredited Home Lenders

Adults and Children with Learning and Developmental Disabilities

ADP

Advanced Acoustic Concepts, Inc.

Aerotek

Ahead of the PACE Promotions

AHRC- Nassau

Albrecht, Viggiano, Zureck and Co., P.C.

Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Allegis Group

American Express Tax and Business Services

American International Group, Inc.

American Stock Exchange

Armani Exchange

Astoria Federal Savings

Atlantic Video @ The Manhattan Center

Bank of America

The Bank of New York

BARC USA

BDO Seidman

Bear Stearns & Company, Inc.

Bed Bath & Beyond

Berdon LLP

Bethpage Federal Credit Union

Bloomingdale's

Board of Equalization

Bookspan

Brookhaven Town Democratic Committee

CA

Cablevision Systems Corporation

Calico Cottage Inc.

Callaghan Nawrocki LLP

Canine Companions for Independence

CareerBuilder.com

CBS News

Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)

Citibank North America

Citigroup - GCIB

Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory

CompUSA
Con Edison

Cornick, Garber & Sandler, LLP

Coughlin Foundotoso Cullen & Danowski LLP

Cox Broadcasting Companies

Deloitte & Touche

Deutsche Bank

DOAR Litigation Consulting

DOJ/Drug Enforcement Administration

Enterprise Rent-A-Car

Ernst and Young LLP

Estée Lauder Companies

Equinox Fitness Clubs

Family and Children's Association

Family Residences and Essential Enterprises

Farber, Blicht, Eyerman & Herzog, LLP

Feldman, Meinberg and Co. LLP

Firestone Complete Car Care

First American Title Insurance Company

First Investors Corporation

First Long Island Investors, LLC

Fitch Ratings

Forex Capital Markets

Fortunoff

Franklin First Financial, Ltd.

Friedberg JCC

Friedman, LLP

Frost & Sullivan

GEICO

Gettry Marcus Stern & Lehrer, CPA

Global Industrial Equipment

Goldman Sachs

Grant Thornton LLP

Grassi & Co. CPA's, P.C.

Great Neck Park District

Griesmeyer & Associates

Guardian First Funding Group

H2M Group

The Hain Celestial Group

Henry Schein, Inc.

The Hershey Company

Hertz

Holtz Rubenstein Reminick LLP

HSBC Bank USA, National Association

Imagistics International, Inc.

Integrated Business Systems, Inc.

Internal Revenue Service

Ivy Asset Management Corp.

Jesuit Volunteer Corps

JH Cohn, LLP

Johnson & Johnson

JP Morgan Chase

Kaplan Test Prep and Admissions

Katz Media Group, Inc.

KeySpan

KPMG LLP

LaBranche Structured Products LLC

Landtek Group, The

L. Belgraier, CPA, PC

Liberty Mutual Insurance Co.

Linens 'N Things

Loeb and Troper

Loeffler Seltzer and Floch, LLP

Long Island Association for AIDS Care, Inc. (LIAAC)

Macy's East

Mahoney Cohen and Co., CPA., P.C.

Marcum & Kliegman LLP

Marcus & Company LLP

Marden, Harrison and Kreuter, CPAs, P.C.

Margolin Winer and Evens LLP

Marine Officer Selection Office, NY

Marks Paneth & Shron Company LLP

The Maurer Foundation

Maxim Healthcare Services

MBS Insight, Inc.

McCoy Consultants Ltd.

MEDFONE, Inc.

Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center

MercyFirst

MetLife Information Technology

MetLife/Goodman Financial Group

Metro Door

Metro One Loss Prevention Services Group

Mil-Spec Industries Corp.

Millennium Communications, Inc.

Moore Wallace, an RR Donnelley Co.

Morgan Stanley

Mortgage Line Financial Corporation

MTA New York City Transit

MTV Networks

Nassau County Government

Nassau County Probation Department

NEFCU: Nassau Educators Federal Credit Union

National Center for Disability Services (Abilities!)

New Century Mortgage Corp.

New Line Cinema

New York County District Attorney's Office

New York Life

New York State Senate

New York Stock Exchange

New York Times Company, The

News 12 Networks

North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System

The NPD Group, Inc.

Nussbaum, Yates & Wolpow, PC

The Nutty Irishman

NYC Fire Department

NYPD Police Cadet Corps

NYU Medical Center

Office of U.S. Senator Charles E. Schumer

Office of the State Comptroller

Open Link Financial, Inc.

Pall Corporation

Park Shore Country Day Camp

PeaceCorps

Pfizer, Inc.

Pine Forest Summer Camps

PricewaterhouseCoopers

Primerica Financial Services

Princeton Review, The

Prudential Financial

Protiviti

Publishers Clearing House

Raich, Ende, Malter & Co. LLP

Rainbow Media/Cablevision

Risk Management Planning Group, Inc., The

Rosen, Seymour, Shapss, Martin & Co. LLP

Rothstein, Kass, and Co., P.C.

Russell Bedford

Rynkar, Vail & Barrett, LLP

Sanofi Aventis

Schoenfeld Mendelsohn Goldfarb

Schultheis & Panettieri

Schwartz & Company, LLP

Sendtraffic.com Inc.

Setton International Foods, Inc.

The Sherwin-Williams Company

Sleepy's, The Mattress Professionals

Sony Pictures Entertainment

Spherion Professional Services

Sprint

St. Francis Hospital - The Heart Center

State Bank of Long Island

Sunrise Assisted Living

S.W. Bach & Company

Symbol Technologies, Inc.

Synovate

Target Corporation

TempTrends New York, Inc.

TheraCare

Tritium Card Services

Triumvirate Environmental

United States Army Healthcare

United States Navy

United States Navy Recruiting District of New York

United States Securities and Exchange Commission

United Cerebral Palsy of Nassau County

United Supply Systems

Vector

Velocity Sports Performance

Verizon Wireless
Viacom/MTV Networks

W.B. Mason Co., Inc.

Walgreens

Weiser and Co., LLP

Wells Fargo Business Credit, Inc.

Wells Fargo Financial

Westrock Advisors, Inc.

Winthrop-University Hospital

YAI (National Institute for People with Disabilities)

Hiroko,

I graduated from Hofstra Univeristy as an undegraduate in 2003. If you really want to go to a school in NYC or in the greater metro area I would list them in this sequence:

1.Columbia
2.NYU
3.Fordham
4.St. Johns
5.Hofstra
6.Baruch
7.Pace

Hofstra is a relatively young university when compared to many of the institutions in the area, which means that they are still working through some wrinkles. I would say that right now Hofstra is at the stage that NYU was in the 1970s. The MBA program is heading in the right direction, but if you do some research you will see that they have a ton of work left to do. Don?t get me wrong, I love Hofstra, however I am also enough of a realist to have gone to a higher caliber school, even though I was accepted into Hofstra?s MBA program.
Is your GMAT score above the 600-650 range? Was your overall GPA as an undergraduate above the 3.3-3.5 range? Does your work experience exceed 4-6 years? Do you have any management experience? Are you planning to apply to 5 schools or more? If your answer is yes to the above questions than I would advise you to apply to:

1.NYU: Although extremely expensive excluding the cost of living in NYC, the rewards and benefits of having that diploma from that school will be well worth the insane loan amount that you will be taking out. A very close friend graduated from the Stern School of Business last year, with an estimated $85,000 in loans. Now he is making $90,000 with the potential of reaching 6 figures within the next two years.
2.Fordham University: Very good school that often gets overshadowed by NYU and Columbia. You will get the exact same education that you would from NYU, at a cheaper rate. It does not provide you with the almost guarantee of landing that $75K plus salary that you would get from NYU, but you will certainly be considered for some high caliber opportunities.
3.Columbia: See NYU, only more prestigious and selective. Virtually guarantees you a top-notch job before graduating.
4.Baruch: Best bang for your buck you could get anywhere in this country. The education is extremely good, and their reputation is very well regarded in the metro area. About ten years ago that was not the case, however things are certainly different now. Due to the volume of applicants they get, they are sometimes forced to be really selective about who they accept. I would say that NYC residents get first consideration.
5.St. John?s University: Solid school and very good back up school in case you do not get into your first choice schools.
6.Hofstra: See St. John?s.


Good luck in your pursuit.

This regarding some of your posts about NYC business schools:

What's happening in terms of the perception of local MBA programs is that relative comparisons are becoming more difficult, and perceived differences between certain schools are beginning to narrow. For example, Columbia's edge over NYU is slowly eroding in part, due to the fact that Stern is further entrenching itself, as a leader in finance and investment valuation. And on a national scale, its finance curriculum is comparable to those of Chicago and Wharton. The same thing is happening between Fordham and St. John's: The Tobin College of Business is moving sharply into "Risk, Financial Engineering, and Investment Management" through its School of Risk Management. With the exception of leveraging its Economics Dept., Fordham does not have the infrastructure to currently compete with St. John's in the more quantitative disciplines related to finance and the strategic management of risk. One of Fordham's perceived strengths is in media, which St. John's cannot presently match in terms of geographical and industry-connected resources. If you compare faculty backgrounds, you'll see a few Fordham finance Profs. with MBAs from St. John's, but not the equivalent in reverse. Back then, Fordham was clearly the 3rd strongest program behind Columbia and NYU. This is not the standard perception now, as more applicants are comparing St. John's to Fordham and vice versa.

I would still rank St. John's as the third strongest MBA program behind Columbia and NYU Stern (you can search Stern's web site to see one reason why I make this remark), even if only for the reason that they made more improvements to its program, since 2000 than its regionally ranked competitors. Also, considering the high trade rates between the two schools (St. John's and Fordham); people are more interested in the best fit for them, concerning each school's relative strengths.

Hello guys, thank you so much for those detailed answers. That really helps me to define a perfect application strategy.
To answer your questions RexD, my results are not of the best, I admit: My GMAT is slightly above the 600 mark, I have 6 years working experience - but my overall GPA is not good, it's 3.1. Well all in all not the ideal situation to get accepted by Columbia...
I will follow your advice and apply for different MBAs at the same time to increase my chances.
Thanks again, you are a big help!

Hiroko,

Always glad to help, I was in the same situation that you are in only a few years ago. With what you have told me, I would say that unfortunately you should scratch Columbia and NYU off of your list, unless out of your 6 years of work experience some of them were as a manager. If so, and depending on how many years you were in that supervisory position, I would say that you may want to keep NYU in your lisAt, because they value managerial experience a great deal. By what you have told me, I would say that you have a good shot of being accepted into:
1. Fordham University
2. Bauruch College
3. St. John?s University

Great shot at being accepted at:
1. Hofstra Univerisity
2. Pace University

Also, I am not sure what kind of MBA you want to pursue, but have you ever considered an online MBA. More and more schools are starting to venture into that realm of education. Northeastern University has a fantastic online MBA program and so does Indiana University. If you have time, check out the below links:
http://kd.iu.edu/programs/msgscm/overview.htm
http://www.onlinemba.neu.edu
At Northeastern you can contact:
Kira Nguyen, Admissions Advisor
Northeastern University Graduate Admissions Office
Tel: 1-866-890-0347 ext. 3351 Fax: 1-866-230-8750

Online MBAs might not be what you are looking for, but at least you will know all of your options. Good Luck
G3XL: Excellent points.

Hey RexD, thanks for these comments, I highly appreciate!
About the option to do an online MBA, I wanted to ask you how you think this would be perceived by employers. Does an online MBA not look a bit less serious? What do you think?
It's definitely more practical and easier to combine with a job. But I never considered because I was afraid that it's not worth so much on the job market.

Hi Hiroko,

That is a real valid question, which I also had when I first heard about those online MBA programs. When I spoke to the many well known universities, which now offer online classes (Indiana University, Michigan State, Boston University, Northeastern University and numerous others) I found that the degree that you attain through their online programs is no different from the diploma that you would received if you physically attended the university.
The key to online MBAs is that you have to differentiate the legit schools from the Devry type schools out there. Also, you want to make sure that those schools have all the proper accreditations and make sure to contact them to be certain that they indeed are offering online programs. Another, point about online MBAs is that you have to have a lot more self discipline than if you were physically attending a school.
To answer your question, an online MBA does not look less serious as long it is from a quality school, and also remember those schools will still provide you with all the services that you would have at your disposal if you were attending the school. The keys are self-discipline and picking the universities apart from the Phoenix universities of the world.