IESE, HEC and Esade are substantially better for international mobility, and for employment, than IE. IESE is worth the wait, but go to Esade is they don't admit you. Or take a semester full-time to perfect your French before starting at HEC.

Thanks, I didn't apply to ESADE but I will consider it.

But it sounds like in any case waiting until fall is probably a good option. I will see if I can defer my HEC admit.

I think a lot of this comes down to where you are motivated to work. If it's Paris, go to France now and take an intensive language course before starting the MBA at HEC.

Personally, in terms of the quality of the MBA experience, IESE is way better than HEC.

However, HEC is ranked better in terms of international mobility, at least by the FT.

Thanks. It's a tough choice but I think I will delay until next fall and see what my options are then.

If you can, visit the schools to sit in class and, in the case of HEC, understand how different the campus setting is.

For at least of few of the HEC students I've known, they have looked for housing in Paris after the first semester.

[quote]Personally, in terms of the quality of the MBA experience, IESE is way better than HEC. [/quote]<br><br>Duncan, could you elaborate on this point? Is it limited to the fact that IESE predominantly uses the Case Study method? Also, would you (or others on this board) be able to say which one makes more sense for people (non-EU folks - I'm Indian, like Booygenius) wanting to switch to Finance? I understand both schools have the option of undertaking an internship, but if you look closely, the 15 month option at IESE doesn't really allow one to pursue an internship, whereas the (just 30 days longer) 16 month MBA at HEC Paris does allow it - just wondering why it seems to work for one school, but not the other.<br><br>Thank you so much for all your help - your posts are invaluable, especially for international students! More power to you!<br>

There's a not a massive gap in the quality of the students of the outcomes. IESE is generally ranked slightly above HEC but, for example, this year HEC is higher. However, IESE is way harder and heavier than HEC. Generally, it's very hard to get into the grandes ecoles, and when you are there it's taken for granted that you are smart. Your role there is to accelerate, acclimatize, contextualise, specialize and network. IESE is harder work, and the students can't avoid their weaknesses, be that quant work or group work. In different ways, that different is also one of managerial cultures between their countries. However, it also reflects the division of labour between IESE and ESADE which is reflective of the difference between those schools owners, Opus Dei and the Society of Jesus.<div><br></div><div>Indeed, the long programme at IESE is the traditional format and is the better one for changers, those who are shifting country, role, industry. The track without an internship is better for those who are accelerating on the same path. That's true everywhere, of course. The longer the format, the more chances you have to make a transition.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>In a nutshell - Generally, IESE is a better school for finance.&nbsp;<a href="http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/top-mbas-for-finance-2018">http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/top-mbas-for-finance-2018</a>&nbsp;</div>

[quote]There's a not a massive gap in the quality of the students of the outcomes. IESE is generally ranked slightly above HEC but, for example, this year HEC is higher. However, IESE is way harder and heavier than HEC. Generally, it's very hard to get into the grandes ecoles, and when you are there it's taken for granted that you are smart. Your role there is to accelerate, acclimatize, contextualise, specialize and network. IESE is harder work, and the students can't avoid their weaknesses, be that quant work or group work. In different ways, that different is also one of managerial cultures between their countries. However, it also reflects the division of labour between IESE and ESADE which is reflective of the difference between those schools owners, Opus Dei and the Society of Jesus.<div><br></div><div>Indeed, the long programme at IESE is the traditional format and is the better one for changers, those who are shifting country, role, industry. The track without an internship is better for those who are accelerating on the same path. That's true everywhere, of course. The longer the format, the more chances you have to make a transition.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>In a nutshell - Generally, IESE is a better school for finance.&nbsp;<a href="http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/top-mbas-for-finance-2018">http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/top-mbas-for-finance-2018</a>&nbsp;</div> [/quote]<div><br></div><div>Duncan, thank you so much for views on those programs - just what I was looking for.<br><br>You did mention Opus Dei, and while I did read about the school's association with them, I wonder to what extent it should matter, given that I practice a different religion, and if that will affect one's stay there.<br><br></div><div>While the longer format favors IESE, do you feel outcomes just might be better for students at HEC when it comes to Finance, given that the French economy is more robust, and let's say has more room for that sort of a talent? As far as the rest of EU/UK is concerned, as you said, they're both similarly placed, and might (or perhaps should) lead to similar outcomes.&nbsp;<br><br>As far as language is concerned, IESE definitely integrates Spanish actively, and I feel you could graduate having solid Spanish skills by the end of the program. I didn't find much info for HEC, but I suppose the bilingual degree option at IESE would be better regardless. Although, for what it's worth, even though Spanish is spoken more widely, I'm not sure if it's the language that will unlock more doors for MBA candidates when compared to French, and even more-so in the Finance industry. That's just my hunch largely, but would love to hear on this from to you.<br><br>Finally, tailoring of goals matter, and I feel nationalities and work permits can make or break those. From my LinkedIn research, it seems Indian (or even non EU) students are more successful at being placed outside their home country when compared to IESE, which came as a bit of surprise really, given that the latter has the edge for those looking to make those sort of jumps. Any thoughts?&nbsp;<br><br>And on a related note, I was wondering if you would place the Alliance Manchester Business School in the same bucket as HEC/IESE. The 18 month format is similar in length, but I don't think the kind of outcomes in the Finance and/or Consulting industry would be the same. Although the two year Post Study Work visa would be great to have, and might just tip the hat in AMBS's favor (or perhaps the likes of Warwick/Cass/Imperial) as far as non-EU folks are concerned. <br><br>Super keen to hear your thoughts, and once again, I applaud your efforts in helping out prospective MBA students. Thank you!<br></div>

Opus Dei won't care if you have another faith.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>The data show that Iese students have better outcomes in finance than those in HEC. Spain is a smaller country, but there is also less competition and no Grandes Ecoles. I am not sure how you would assess robustness.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I assume very few Indians apply to IESE and Esade compared to the Grandes Ecoles. There is no Spanish speaking enclave of India. I don't think there are comparable groups of people and I don't know how you could compare them.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Manchester is ranked similarly to HEC at&nbsp;https://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/top-mbas-for-finance-2018 however, average outcomes at different schools have to take into account the language skills of the students.&nbsp;</div>

[quote]Opus Dei won't care if you have another faith.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>The data show that Iese students have better outcomes in finance than those in HEC. Spain is a smaller country, but there is also less competition and no Grandes Ecoles. I am not sure how you would assess robustness.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I assume very few Indians apply to IESE and Esade compared to the Grandes Ecoles. There is no Spanish speaking enclave of India. I don't think there are comparable groups of people and I don't know how you could compare them.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Manchester is ranked similarly to HEC at&nbsp;https://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/top-mbas-for-finance-2018 however, average outcomes at different schools have to take into account the language skills of the students.&nbsp;</div> [/quote]<br><br>Duncan, thank you once again for your valuable comments.&nbsp;<br><br>One thing that makes IESE different when compared to say HEC, and one that I tend to overlook at times, is that the latter is really a Grande Ecole (the best in France) that offers an MBA, whereas the former is, shall we say, a 'pure' business school, known for the MBA and EMBA education it imparts.&nbsp;<br><br>Thank you for sharing the FT Finance MBA rankings (we tend to obsess over the recent Global rankings, since those are fresh(er)). A quick observation - while IESE improved YOY (16 in 2018 vs 21 in 2017), both HEC (40 in 2018 vs 26 in 2017), and AMBS (42 in 2018 vs 29 in 2017) saw a great decline in their rankings. Would you happen to know the reason behind this?<br><br>I do agree that probably fewer Indians apply to the Spanish schools (for various reasons), and that it won't really be an ideal comparison. However, when it comes to career outcomes, it appears that IESE and HEC feed into 'better' roles (IB, PE, VC, CF), when compared to AMBS, even though both have long programs, and offer the ability to transition when compared to other schools. I feel that the IESE and HEC employment reports also offer greater detail. Just a little confused about where AMBS really sits.<br><br>Thank you.

HEC is not really the best grande école overall, that's the&nbsp;<span style="font-family: -apple-system, HelveticaNeue, Roboto, Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">École Polytechnique</span>, but it certainly is the best grande école for business. As you say, IESE is a graduate school while Esade has had both pre- and post-experience degrees.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>I have some ideas about why IESE has improved, but I think that also reflects the higher growth of the Spanish speaking world generally. HEC and AMBS are generally trending down as most European schools are because of rising competition in the developing world and most obviously in greater China. But they also increasingly have the market perception of being high profile options for career switchers, and those graduates are generally much slower to get into the workplace and might not get the higher salaries of more experienced candidates. So perhaps that is a factor about individuals which effects the averages.&nbsp;</div>

But, certainly AMBS is not on the same level as IESE in my opinion. IESE is the best business school in the Latin world, and has played a key role is generating leaders to help the private sector take the generations-long journey from autarky to globalization. It's a central thread in the business culture, with a mission. Manchester almost had that role until 20 years ago, but since then Oxford,&nbsp; Cambridge and Imperial have created serious MBAs,&nbsp; while Cass, Warwick, Durham and Edinburgh have stepped up massively. Manchester is now in the middle of this pack, while 20 years ago it was (like RSM) one of the handful of outstanding European schools. All the schools are moving ahead, but some are moving faster. The UK schools are especially hampered by restrictions on work permits.

[quote]But, certainly AMBS is not on the same level as IESE in my opinion. IESE is the best business school in the Latin world, and has played a key role is generating leaders to help the private sector take the generations-long journey from autarky to globalization. It's a central thread in the business culture, with a mission. Manchester almost had that role until 20 years ago, but since then Oxford,&nbsp; Cambridge and Imperial have created serious MBAs,&nbsp; while Cass, Warwick, Durham and Edinburgh have stepped up massively. Manchester is now in the middle of this pack, while 20 years ago it was (like RSM) one of the handful of outstanding European schools. All the schools are moving ahead, but some are moving faster. The UK schools are especially hampered by restrictions on work permits. [/quote]<br><br>I can't help but agree with everything you said here, Duncan. And if I could just add to what you wrote, it is that rankings could be viewed both relatively and absolutely (a concept we're taught during valuations class). Even though a school may be as good as it was several years ago, others might have progressed so much, that a Tier 1 school becomes Tier 2, through no direct fault of their own.&nbsp;<br><br>While the visa restrictions imposed back in 2012 did hamper growth in the UK B School market, do you feel the newly introduced 2 year post study work visa will change things around considerably? I feel the schools you mentioned started things seriously only in this decade, and found themselves partially out-of-favor due to work restrictions (and the change in the UK-EU dynamic). Unfortunately, not a lot of information is available on this visa (based on all the looking around I've done thus far) - for instance, is it applicable only for say STEM degrees, or certain school, or maybe even types of degrees, etc.<br><br>Thank you.

I think MBAs are tools for purposes. The longer format available at ESADE, HHL, IESE, LBS, and Manchester are so different: those long degrees have advantages for people making big career transitions, and there's not much point comparing them with intensive one-year degrees that are aimed at accellerators rather than switchers.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>The two-year visa is simply an extra year. I don't think it's big turn-around because it's still much more unfavourable than the previous system. It's much harder than it was to persuade an employer to take the effort to comply with the regulations, since the effort and costs grown, and the government's 'hostile environment' creates friction.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>As a result, I think the top UK schools fall into four clusters: the first two for accelerators and the final two for switchers. (I can't get the line breaks to show clearly, sadly))</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>- LBS &amp; Oxford. Highest mobility, biggest reputations and quickest employment.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;- Warwick, Cass, Imperial: fairly high mobility and quick employment</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;- Cambridge and AMBS: fairly high mobility and slower into employment</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;- Edinburgh and Durham: lowest mobility, most female students, weakest reputations and lowest for aims achieved (within the top UK schools. Of course, they are still better than the mid-tier schools, with the possible exceptions of Batyh, Cranfield and Strathclyde).&nbsp;</div>

[quote]The UK schools are especially hampered by restrictions on work permits. [/quote]<div>But didn't they lift most of the restrictions that were put in place a few years ago? Seems to me the UK has a relatively civilized visa policy in place now.</div>

[quote][quote]The UK schools are especially hampered by restrictions on work permits. [/quote]<div>But didn't they lift most of the restrictions that were put in place a few years ago? Seems to me the UK has a relatively civilized visa policy in place now.</div> [/quote]<br><br>Larry, any chance you have more information on this? There isn't a ton of detailed information on the changes proposed, and who stands to benefit the most.<br><br>Thanks!