Hey!
Interesting thoughts. I consider the same universities.
Why did you rule out Durham Henley Lancaster? What were the detailed reasons?

Hi

Durham - weak employer links so no real opportunity to do a consultancy project. MBA is theoretical and 12 courses long. University is small and unheard of outside UK.

Henley - course looks really poor with like 10 modules and no employer links.

Lancaster - Indian cohort and unheard of outside UK.

What's your profile? Which school are you leaning to?

What are your goals? Edinburgh is certainly a strong choice, especially in terms of cohort, flexibility and setting, but at any of these schools the work search is your responsibility. Look at which firms recruit where.

[quote][/quote]

My goal is to switch from a career in finance to industry (not exactly sure which but retail is something I would be interested in) and work in a business development type role. Do you think this sort of career switch would be hard from a school like Bath/Edinburgh?

I think Edinburgh is better for finance, but a GMAT school will really be much, much better for finance.

Happy new year!

[quote][/quote]Happy new year to you too.

However I do not want to work in finance anymore if you read my previous post. I want to move into retail in a business development role. Is the retail industry fussy about where you did your mba? Thinking it through it seems the Edinburgh MBA is really focused on finance and consulting which is what I do not want to go into. Bath seems to have good links with fmcg/retail employers so I think it would be a better fit for me.

Try: How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571

Hi again!

I have just looked at the website of the UoE and couldn't find the option to waive the GMAT. So from where do you have the information? What did I understand wrong?

And second question: Does anybody has got an overview or a list which schools (out of the FT100 or Economist ranking) do not require the GMAT provided that you have got quite solid and long working experience.

Thanks in advance!

<quote>I have just looked at the website of the UoE and couldn't find the option to waive the GMAT. So from where do you have the information? What did I understand wrong?</quote>

http://www.business-school.ed.ac.uk/mba/full-time/eligibility

Under the "exemptions and conditions" topic:

<quote>The GMAT can be waived if you are able to demonstrate an excellent academic and professional record. We require a full application before we can assess suitability for a GMAT waiver.</quote>

In terms of GMAT waivers at other schools, each will have its own policy. Bath for instance, says that applicants who have less than 4 years of work experience have to take the GMAT score.

Lancaster is more vague about its GMAT policy, but 4 years of work experience seems to be the cut off; and students with "exceptional qualities" may be admitted without the GMAT.

But using a "no GMAT" policy as a way to select schools is often a really bad idea; and as Duncan mentioned earlier a school that strictly requires the GMAT will most likely be better for a career in finance.

Thank you for the research.

I understand your opinion in terms of the GMAT and I agree, too.

For me it is the question if it is really worth it to do this amount of preparation work.

I have nearly 8 years of work experience at famous companies in good positions and unfortunately, since I am really busy it is not so easy to organize the preparation beside the full time job.

And for instance, do you really think that the Dublin Smurfit MBA (GMAT entry score 550) is better than the Edinburgh MBA (possibly no-GMAT? - I don't know?!

I work in the automotive sector and I want to stay in this field, but with a job that is more international. I live in Germany and I am relatively free where to live and work. An alternative would be to work as an consultant - inhouse or tier 2.

I think my CV is interessting for both options.

My main goal concerning the MBA is to get more international experience, to get proficient in the English language and to have a good and interesting time, of course. ;)

So for the core question is: it is really worth it to put all the hours and the money in the GMAT preparation and in the higher fees, as well.

I mean, if you're interesting for a certain company with your experience and your MBA, do you think your salary will be higher with a Cambridge MBA than with a Edinburgh MBA?
- If not, it might be not "necessary" to pay the high price (GMAT effort and fees)...

My current shortlist contains:
- Imperial College London (+ good in rankings + cohort - expensive)
- GSB Cape Town (+ decent in rankings + exciting place + not expensive - theoretical?!)
- University of Edinburgh (+ nice program structure 16 months)

Bath is out because they don't have the US accreditation. - Perhaps want to work there someday...

But in terms of the automotive focus I haven't found any information on LinkedIn.
Is there any school in the UK that is well-known for its connection to the car industry?

Lots of thoughts and questions...

If anybody want to share the discussion and to post his or her thoughts, you're welcome. :)

I have exactly the same thoughts as Sep14, though I do have less work experience.

I really don't see the benefit of working my ass off and potentially getting a GMAT score that won't even get me into Cranfield/Oxbridge/LBS. For me the risk is too high.

I have been able to get a good job with a high salary at a top company with just a bachelors degree. I really doubt doing an MBA at a school like Edinburgh is going to make me less employable. I want to study an MBA to broaden my understanding of business; have some fun and potentially make a career move into Retail.

Sep14 I have left you a private message.

I don't think the two of you are going in the right direction. Sep14 is viewing the MBAs as if they are more or less interchangable, as if UCT is as good a route into the auto industry as Edinburgh.

Good morning Duncan,

Thank you for your opinion.
That's why I'm here: to get food for thought. (Is this the right expression? ;)

But, to be honest, I didn't understand why I'm going in the wrong direction.
I mean, in general, there is more than one way to every goal.

What do you think would be the best direction for me?

Duncan, can you explain why you think the GMAT is so critical for MBA's?

I understand international students need to get into the best school they can to increase chances of getting a job, and some employers (very few) require a GMAT score like the strat consultancies.

However in the real world prestige is not the be all and end all. Your point on reputation/prestige sounds like the stuff you would hear from A level students on thestudentroom who say that you can only get a job in banking if you get into a Top 6 university etc. However you will find plenty of graduates from the worst universities in the country (think brunel/westminster etc) who hold high paying jobs in banks.

I simply dont think this prestige/reputation/gmat point applies to UK/EU students who want to do an MBA in EU and are not applying to the cream of employers (strat consultancies / lazard etc)

Sept14, not every road leads to every destination. Different schools have very different outcomes. I suggest you read:-
- GMAT Tiers - strong schools for your GMAT www.find-mba.com/board/27082
- How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571
- Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713

iwanttobeanmba, the GMAT matters because it is the most effective predictor of success in MBA studies. Some Brunel and Westminster alumni might end in high-paying roles, but if you use the LinkedIn approach above, you'll see that a better MBA turns this from a highly unlikely outcome into a tenable strategy.
- Why you should take the GMAT http://www.find-mba.com/board/38939

On the broader point, reputation absolutely matters. Strategy consultancies and investment banks in Europe hire mainly from the top ten MBA programmes. But there is a big difference between the second 10 and the third ten, and between the second 30 and the third 30, and all the way down. It's not simply bulge-bracket firms and then a uniform commodity market.

Duncan,

Personality is the most important factor in securing a coveted role at a prestigious company. GMAT does not evaluate that. An MBA gives you the skills and tools - that's it. Only the LBS/Oxbridge MBA will open doors for you purely because of the "name factor".

And there are hardly many MBA level structured schemes on this side of the pond. Most hiring managers have not done an MBA, and wouldn't have a clue Cranfield, is for example, better than Edinburgh - they would in fact think the other way around as most people have not heard of Cranfield. Trust me on that. At the investment bank I work at in London, some of these hiring managers do not know the difference between LSE and LBS (these people earn 150-200K per year and are in their 30s, so are not stupid).

Cheers

Hi Duncan.

I read all these posts several times in the last months.

And I agree to most of your statements. But there are aspects that I evaluate different.

In my opinion there is one general point in this whole "best school" discussion:

Clearly, there are 10-20 absolutely world class schools. In the UK LBS and Oxbridge for example. No doubt.
And if you want to work at McKinsey and want to earn 150+K Euro per year, than it is a save bet to study there. And surely, the high fees will pay itself off.
Ok.
But I think not everybody a) wants to work in this extremely competitive environment and/or b) is capable to do this.
And by the way: everybody has to decide on his or her own if he or she likes/enjoys this kind of environment (in school and company). - I know some McK people, some Insead people.. ..not really likable.
Thus, I think the picture is not that simple.
But if you want to work as an Management Consult at companies like accenture and co than it looks different.


I am still interested in your opinion. You said I go the wrong direction. What would be a better one? I played with LinkedIn but didn't find THE answer.


to: - Do you need to speak the local language?

Yes, I agree it is good to speak the language. But again it is not that black white.
For instance, I'm German. And if you study in Germany for an MBA and if you have in generally an interesting CV it is absolutely possible to get a good job in the country. There are several multi national companies that have team in which many people doesn't speak German.
Another example: if I would want to study in Spain but without the goal to work there after the MBA, than it is not really necessary to speak Spanish.

PS:
iwanttobeanmba, I answered your private message.
Thanks!

yes i agree with u

in all Arabic countries there are a lot of multinational's employees that they don't even know how to say hello in arabic!!!