China - Mandarin / MBA? - advice needed - Page 3 of 3

China - Mandarin / MBA? - advice needed

device04

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 05:14

Hey device it's good to talk with someone else who also got accepted into the Tsinghua IMBA program this year. From your post it seems you are fairly young (under 25). The reason I'm saying this is that you said you just recently spent a year in Taiwan studying Mandarin; people who are older and have to pay a mortgage usually don't have that luxury. Like I said already the only two schools I would even consider in China is Beida or Tsinghua due to their academic strength and brandname recognition. At the end, I chose to apply to Tsinghua simply because Tsinghua is a tech school, while Beida is more of a liberal arts school; currently the Chinese government is investing massive amounts of money trying to develop a Mainland hi-tech sector similar in scale to Taiwan and South Korea and I believe Tsinghua will be in a better position to take advantage of this opportunity.

Device, if I were in your shoes I would definitely attend Tsinghua this year over sitting out another year for CEIBS. Please note that this is not a knock on CEIBS, I'd give you the same advice even if the situation was reversed meaning that I would also attend CEIBS this year instead of sitting out a year for Tsinghua. In my opinion these schools are close enough that it doesn't make sense to sit out a whole year for one or the other. Also I would be careful about attending/applying for schools in the US below the top 40; if you aim is to work in China/Asia Pacific region immediately after graduation, you really have to be aiming at the US top 20 or else you're probably just better off applying to an Asian MBA.

Actually, I am pretty close I suppose. I just turned 27. I decided to take a year (seems I wasn't totally unjustified given the current economic climate) to study Chinese after working in finance for a few years. Luckily, no mortgage or anything else to worry about yet, so can move freely.

For me, I guess I'm not convinced 100% that I want to work in Asia long-term, or not, but just really open to that idea especially after my time in Asia over the last year and gaining admission to a top China uni. I suppose that might sound a little wrong, but I guess I'm just really open to being in Asia or the US, depending on the school and its reputation.

I hear what you're saying about US schools, and I'm under no illusions that a Top 40 school could get me equal footing in China as compared to Tsinghua (or CEIBS). Conversely, Tsinghua or CEIBS probably can't even compare to a US Top 60ish school in the US. I guess I would characterize that I prefer to be in Asia, which is why I am heavily leaning towards moving forward with Tsinghua. However, a highly regarded US Top 40 could be equally great career-wise, just US-based for the short-term at least. Speaking of Tsinghua, have you received any formal documents from the school that speak towards when orientation and school start? I'm trying to figure out my travel and summer plans, but it seems they don't really want to help me out with dates or extra info.

How about you? What's your background/story? Congrats and hope to catch up with you in the fall.

<blockquote>Hey device it's good to talk with someone else who also got accepted into the Tsinghua IMBA program this year. From your post it seems you are fairly young (under 25). The reason I'm saying this is that you said you just recently spent a year in Taiwan studying Mandarin; people who are older and have to pay a mortgage usually don't have that luxury. Like I said already the only two schools I would even consider in China is Beida or Tsinghua due to their academic strength and brandname recognition. At the end, I chose to apply to Tsinghua simply because Tsinghua is a tech school, while Beida is more of a liberal arts school; currently the Chinese government is investing massive amounts of money trying to develop a Mainland hi-tech sector similar in scale to Taiwan and South Korea and I believe Tsinghua will be in a better position to take advantage of this opportunity.

Device, if I were in your shoes I would definitely attend Tsinghua this year over sitting out another year for CEIBS. Please note that this is not a knock on CEIBS, I'd give you the same advice even if the situation was reversed meaning that I would also attend CEIBS this year instead of sitting out a year for Tsinghua. In my opinion these schools are close enough that it doesn't make sense to sit out a whole year for one or the other. Also I would be careful about attending/applying for schools in the US below the top 40; if you aim is to work in China/Asia Pacific region immediately after graduation, you really have to be aiming at the US top 20 or else you're probably just better off applying to an Asian MBA. </blockquote>

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wangtao

8 16

Posted Jun 05, 2009 08:05

I am considering applying next year and went and visited the school.

Saying Tsinghua can't even compare to a US Top 60ish school in the US is pretty difficult considering they have special links with a number of US schools in the top 10. MBA students at Tsinghua have the option to do a 1 year degree M.A. at MIT, do a short-term exchange at Stanford (Stanford only has two exchange programs and Tsinghua is one of them), and do an exchange at Yale,Kellogg, NYU, or Duke). Not too mention that HBS and Tsinghua's Executive Program are always doing collaborations (along with CEIBS).

Still, I feel the teaching in English at Tsinghua is probably not up to a top 20 US school yet. The teaching in Chinese however is superior considering the professors are often advisors to Chinese government and published in magazine articles every week.

If you are an ABC, Tsinghua is probably a very good choice since you can take full opportunities of the activities conducted in Chinese and English. Meanwhile, you do not have to undergo the rigorous application process nationals have to go through to get into the program.

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device04

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 17:25

Wangtao, thanks for your insight, especially since I won't have the chance to visit before school starts (whether this proves good or bad remains to be seen).

When I said that Tsinghua can't compare to a US Top-60, I meant that it couldn't compare if you were looking for a career in the US. The strong corporate ties that Top-60 (I'm ballparking here) schools have in their regional area usually more than outweigh anything you could bring from abroad (unless you're talking the best of the best, which MIGHT be recognizable, but may not be as trusted as said US school). The same argument can be applied if you're looking for a career in China, wherein Tsinghua is going to probably carry you further than most schools other than the US Top 5-10. I have seen all the exchange and dual-degree programs offered through Tsinghua but one should keep in mind that these are generally limited to a handful (at best) of students for each. For example, the new MIT/Tsinghua dual-degree starting up this year will accept a total of 12-15 students, with 3 seats being reserved for Tsinghua students. Fairly good odds, I concede, considering the difficulty in getting accepted at MIT normally, but still not a given. Of course, with so many collaborations, it's likely you could get into at least one of these to help bolster the resume/experience with a US Top-10.

I think it would be foolish to believe that the teaching in the IMBA program at Tsinghua is anywhere near the level of a US Top-20. I'm sure intellectually the professors are there, seeing as almost all have Ph.D's from US universities. But, let's be honest, there's no way their English ability is going to compare, just like I have been "speaking" Chinese my whole life, but I'm nowhere near the level of a native speaker. So, it will be a different experience than attending a US b-school, for sure. But, as you mention, the professors are very well respected and noted experts by China standards, and that is perhaps more powerful if you can form relationships with them. Also, I think the allure of Tsinghua is not in the teaching quality or level of instruction but the incredible network that you can establish with fellow classmates and alumni from the whole university. Being one of the most recognizable universities in China, you will be able to use that incredible cache upon graduation.

As an ABC, I have no doubt it will help to have the language ability, and being able to apply as an International student certainly helps in the admissions process. I guess, for me, it's about choosing the best school period; Although, I may found out in the next few days that I have no choices in the US worth considering in comparison to Tsinghua, thus making all my stalling moot.

Saying Tsinghua can't even compare to a US Top 60ish school in the US is pretty difficult considering they have special links with a number of US schools in the top 10. MBA students at Tsinghua have the option to do a 1 year degree M.A. at MIT, do a short-term exchange at Stanford (Stanford only has two exchange programs and Tsinghua is one of them), and do an exchange at Yale,Kellogg, NYU, or Duke). Not too mention that HBS and Tsinghua's Executive Program are always doing collaborations (along with CEIBS).

Still, I feel the teaching in English at Tsinghua is probably not up to a top 20 US school yet. The teaching in Chinese however is superior considering the professors are often advisors to Chinese government and published in magazine articles every week.

If you are an ABC, Tsinghua is probably a very good choice since you can take full opportunities of the activities conducted in Chinese and English. Meanwhile, you do not have to undergo the rigorous application process nationals have to go through to get into the program.

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dennis

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 18:42

Hi Everyone,

Was hoping you could give me some advice. One of my key personal and professional goals is to work in China/HK in the future, either in asset management or management consultancy. I have c3 years of investment banking experience (emerging markets equity research sales / investment banking) from one of the top global investment banks (based in London). I am also doing part 3 (final part) of the CFA this summer. Furthermore, I have a strong undergrad from the London School of Econ. Is it worth my while going to China (say BLCU) for a year to learn mandarin and apply to MBA programmes such as HKUST / CEIBS while I am in language school? With my background, is an MBA useful? Any advice would be appreciated.

Xie Xie!

I know at least 5 highly educated well traveled people speaking 3 or more languages who set out to learn Mandarin. None of them have achieved a level of anywhere near fluency, the have the basics but they all utilize translators when doing business in China. Also learning to speak in different tones is hard, taking up reading is another thing....
Schools such as Tsinghua and CEIBS are great choices for ABCs and BBCs who speak the language, non-Asians are better off studying in former British colonies. Thats my 2 cents.

<blockquote>Hi Everyone,

Was hoping you could give me some advice. One of my key personal and professional goals is to work in China/HK in the future, either in asset management or management consultancy. I have c3 years of investment banking experience (emerging markets equity research sales / investment banking) from one of the top global investment banks (based in London). I am also doing part 3 (final part) of the CFA this summer. Furthermore, I have a strong undergrad from the London School of Econ. Is it worth my while going to China (say BLCU) for a year to learn mandarin and apply to MBA programmes such as HKUST / CEIBS while I am in language school? With my background, is an MBA useful? Any advice would be appreciated.

Xie Xie!</blockquote>

I know at least 5 highly educated well traveled people speaking 3 or more languages who set out to learn Mandarin. None of them have achieved a level of anywhere near fluency, the have the basics but they all utilize translators when doing business in China. Also learning to speak in different tones is hard, taking up reading is another thing....
Schools such as Tsinghua and CEIBS are great choices for ABCs and BBCs who speak the language, non-Asians are better off studying in former British colonies. Thats my 2 cents.

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Pokey

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 18:45

Device
Just curious, but what schools are you waiting to hear back from in the US? Also I'm sure you got the Tsinghua E-packet today. Looks like classes (tentatively) start on the 21 September, but the mandatory orientation will take place in early September.
From your subsequent posts, it seems like you are no longer considering waiting a year for CEIBS.

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device04

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 19:14

Pokey，

Waiting on USC, UC-Irvine, Georgetown and Rutgers still, none of which will probably derail Tsinghua at this point. I agree with your earlier point that it's not worth waiting an extra year (unless we're talking US Top 10, which we're not) to start.

I did get the packet, looks like a late start, I was expecting it to be more towards early September for classes starting. But I guess with the month break for CNY instead of traditional Christmas/NY, they can afford the late start. I am really a bit perplexed at how slow information has been coming and how unsettled the dates are (lack of specific start date for orientation), etc, considering we're entering summer with 3 months before we all arrive. Also not looking forward to the full scale medical testing we need to do either.

I am considering going back to Taiwan in August as well to see family/friends before heading to Beijing. I'm spending the summer with my parents/sister at home in NJ. How old are you? Background? It'd be great to get to know some classmates before actually arriving for school. I've gotten a PM from another person who I believe will be attending this fall as well. Feel free to PM me as opposed to posting for all to see.

Device
Just curious, but what schools are you waiting to hear back from in the US? Also I'm sure you got the Tsinghua E-packet today. Looks like classes (tentatively) start on the 21 September, but the mandatory orientation will take place in early September.
From your subsequent posts, it seems like you are no longer considering waiting a year for CEIBS.

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Pokey

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 19:37

USC and Georgetown are decent schools. I visited McDough since it's close by. Yeah, info is slow coming out from Tsinghua, but I guess that's just how they do things there. I WAS considering rooming in a dorm before, but after reading the ludicrous restrictions (no guests after 10PM, no overnight visitors), I think I'll stick with off-campus housing.

PS: I'm currently living in Washington DC, but I'll travel to Taiwan in early August to see my parents and drop some stuff off before heading out to Beijing.

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device04

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 19:46

USC and Georgetown are decent schools. I visited McDough since it's close by. Yeah, info is slow coming out from Tsinghua, but I guess that's just how they do things there. I WAS considering rooming in a dorm before, but after reading the ludicrous restrictions (no guests after 10PM, no overnight visitors), I think I'll stick with off-campus housing.

PS: I'm currently living in Washington DC, but I'll travel to Taiwan in early August to see my parents and drop some stuff off before heading out to Beijing.

Yea, USC and Georgetown might get me to stop and consider for a moment, but I think Tsinghua is still ahead of them on my mental list. It is China, with the bureaucracy and all, but I figured simple setting of dates would be done faster.

I had read about the dorm restrictions before so wasn't too surprised about that stuff. They did fail to mention the every-other-day housekeeping that sweeps your room and cleans your bathroom or so I read about for previous years. I am also thinking that I'll live off-campus as it seems you can find decent places for about the same you'd pay for a month in the dorms (and not have to deal with petty restrictions, plus have a kitchen, etc).

Sorry about not catching your PS from an earlier post. I am considering going back to Taiwan in August as well to see family/friends before heading to Beijing. I'm spending the summer with my parents/sister at home in NJ. How old are you (I assume you don't have a mortgage either)? Background? Are you still working? It'd be great to get to know some classmates before actually arriving for school. I've gotten a PM from another person who I believe will be attending this fall as well. Feel free to PM me as opposed to posting for all to see.

<blockquote>USC and Georgetown are decent schools. I visited McDough since it's close by. Yeah, info is slow coming out from Tsinghua, but I guess that's just how they do things there. I WAS considering rooming in a dorm before, but after reading the ludicrous restrictions (no guests after 10PM, no overnight visitors), I think I'll stick with off-campus housing.

PS: I'm currently living in Washington DC, but I'll travel to Taiwan in early August to see my parents and drop some stuff off before heading out to Beijing. </blockquote>

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nazking15

6 12

Posted Jun 05, 2009 21:34

hey everyone! looks like a lot has been going on since I've been away! Device, is there a specific option to wait for an extra year before joining CEIBS? That would be a bonus for someone who wishes to take extra time before going to school to work on the language side of things!

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device04

4 7

Posted Jun 05, 2009 22:07

Hi Nazking,

No, there is no option to wait the extra year. You can only apply for the current upcoming school year, with deferment procedures mirroring any other b-school. The extra year "option" is offered to those on a "waitlist" of sorts, so if there are extra spots for this year, they will consider those they've admitted for next year (though I have been told the chances of this happening are very small based on past years' experience). Otherwise, you just have to wait until next year. There is a deposit involved as well, much like when you agree to attend a school for the current year (though, interestingly, I have not had to pay a deposit for Tsinghua, as of yet, though not sure if others have had to).

As for the language learning, I do know that beginning this year CEIBS will have a language requirement where you must pass a Chinese test with a specific score level in order to graduate. During my interview with them, I was told about it and then the admissions director proceeded to conduct the interview in Chinese for a couple minutes. She told me I'd have no problem with it, so it's probably not full fluency level, but my guess is they will want you to be passable/usable level to communicate simply. Think of it as a prerequisite for graduation/working in China. I assume this means that they will also offer Chinese language courses during the MBA program, though not sure of any major details. I only know that there is a pre-term session where you take beginner Chinese along with review classes for stats and calculus (they continue to send me preterm info despite telling me i'm admitted for 2010, not 2009).

As for Tsinghua, in the e-packet we received today, it does say that they offer Chinese classes once a week for the first 16 weeks, which seems to mean the duration of the first semester. They do give a list of language schools in the Tsinghua area if you want to study further. PM me if you'd like their info, though not sure on prices, etc. If you're serious about working in China, you will have to learn Chinese; there's no getting around it, and as some people have said, I think it's a worthwhile endeavor and one of the few things you could do (outside of work/grad school) that schools/employers won't see as a waste of time (assuming you achieve a passable Chinese ability).

Additionally, nazking, your background info suggests to me that you wouldn't have too hard of a time getting in to Tsinghua/CEIBS/HKUST, assuming you score well on the GMAT and can offer a compelling argument for wanting to study in China. I won't say too much more here but feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.

hey everyone! looks like a lot has been going on since I've been away! Device, is there a specific option to wait for an extra year before joining CEIBS? That would be a bonus for someone who wishes to take extra time before going to school to work on the language side of things!

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nazking15

6 12

Posted Jun 11, 2009 14:17

Hi device, have sent you a pm. would be great to see your thoughts!

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