Hi @StuartHE, @Duncan, would love to hear your thoughts on this.

I suggest you open a new thread about UK product management since you post it not really about second-tier MBAs. Look at LinkedIn: are UK product managers normally MBAs? If so, where do they take their MBAs. Those are schools to focus on. 

[quote]RWTH if you can work in German already. Strathclyde if you cannot.&nbsp; [/quote] Thanks @Duncan&nbsp;<br>I'm choosing RWTH Aachen University MBA then as I have a A2 Certification in German. The course is 1.5 years long and I'm sure I'll get to B2 or C1 till I complete my MBA.&nbsp;

These are the schools in the 2022 FT European MBA ranking, published today, that didn't get into the global ranking:<br><br>
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</div><div>&nbsp; University College
</div><div>&nbsp; Dublin: Smurfit
</div><div>&nbsp; 27
</div><div>&nbsp; Eada Business School Barcelona
</div><div>&nbsp; 28
</div><div>&nbsp; University of Edinburgh Business School
</div><div>&nbsp; 29
</div><div>&nbsp; Copenhagen Business School
</div><div>&nbsp; 30
</div><div>&nbsp; HHL Leipzig Graduate School of Management
</div><div>&nbsp; 30
</div><div>&nbsp; Frankfurt School of Finance and
</div><div>&nbsp; Management
</div><div>&nbsp; 32
</div><div>&nbsp; Grenoble Ecole de Management
</div><div>&nbsp; 32
</div><div>&nbsp; Trinity College Dublin, Trinity Business
</div><div>&nbsp; School
</div><div>&nbsp; 34
</div><div>&nbsp; Nyenrode Business Universiteit
</div><div>&nbsp; 35
</div><div>&nbsp; Birmingham Business School
</div><div>&nbsp; 36
</div><div>&nbsp; Vlerick Business School
</div><div>&nbsp; 37
</div><div>&nbsp; Audencia
</div><div>&nbsp; 38
</div><div>&nbsp; Adam Smith Business School, University of
</div><div>&nbsp; Glasgow
</div><div>&nbsp; 38
</div><div>&nbsp; Cranfield School of Management
</div><div>&nbsp; 40
</div><div>&nbsp; Nova School of Business and Economics
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</div><div>&nbsp; Católica Lisbon School of Business and
</div><div>&nbsp; Economics
</div><div>&nbsp; 41
</div><div>&nbsp; Tias Business School, Tilburg University
</div><div>&nbsp; 43
</div><div>&nbsp; University of Exeter Business School
</div><div>&nbsp; 44
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Hello Duncan,<br>Can you please providethe hidden ranking of the second-tier schools in Master in management as well?&nbsp;<br>
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</div><div>Because I noticed that many schools including Cranfield, Lancaster are dropped in the 2022 FT MiM ranking,<br>
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Can't you do that as easily as me?&nbsp;

But how can I extract those hidden data? Analyzing the 2022 European business school ranking page?&nbsp;

Exactly. Sort the ranking by the MiM column.

I checked and filtered the results in the exact way but most of the college's rank is shown as "-" including Lancaster's, Carnfield's and Judge's. Does it mean that the rankings of these colleges have dropped drastically compared to the previous year? The above colleges were ranked in the top 100 in 2021 rankings.

21 of the 95 schools in the European ranking fail to get into the 2022 MiM ranking. That's not most. The schools that are not ranked either because they don't have a MiM large and old enough for data sufficiency (e.g. IESE, IMD, Insead, Oxbridge - and these were not in the 2021 MiM ranking either, you are mistaken about that) or because the outcomes are not at the world class standard of the ranked MiMs. (e.g. Birmingham, Bologna, Glasgow). I suspect Cranfield and Lancaster are in the second category since, like many of the UK schools, PPP MiM salaries are not rising at the same rate as other MiMs (those outside the UK). Some UK schools reported average MiM salaries that are perhaps not better than good BSc students; (Cranfield, Exeter, Glasgow, Henley, Hult). I think that's especially unfavourable for schools in the south-east of England, which so so much more costly.&nbsp;

There is just one MiM school highlighted by the 'hidden ranking' approach. Henley is the 76th-ranked MiM in Europe; only the top 75 made it into the global MiM ranking.&nbsp;

Hi Duncan,<br>I am planning to do an MiM in the Netherlands. I have an admit from Nyenrode at the moment and I also have a job lined up at EY. I am currently in the final semester of my undergrad so i have to make a decision, would it be wise to go for an MiM right after undergrad or should i get some work ex before?<br>Also, is Nyenrode a good option if i am getting into it through an exchange program at SPJIMR India which reduces the cost to a huge extent and gives me a dual alumni status from both the institutions?<br><br>

What are your goals?&nbsp;

My career goals are to work as a project manager and get into the field of sustainability. I have also been learning dutch for the past 5 months and am planning to fully immerse myself in learning the language because I’m really interested in working in the NL.

I’d also like to mention that the job that i have gotten at EY is in audit and I’m not really interested in the field of audit, should I consider working here just because of the brand name of the company?

You will have seen that Nyenrode is the lowest ranked of the Dutch schools in the FT MiM ranking for international mobility. Learning Dutch is so important but there will be little positive pressure for you to learn it and Dutch students and the international students might socialise among themselves. So, it will take extra effort.&nbsp;<br><br>Is the EY job in India or Holland?&nbsp;

I am willing to put in the extra effort needed to learn the language, is it a good school if learning dutch is not a problem?<br>Also, the EY job is in India<br>PS thank you so much for the prompt response.

I'm not sure how big the discount is. Take a look at Nyenrode compared with Tias and Tilburg, two similar schools: https://rankings.ft.com/compare?schoolsId=325,178,630&amp;rankingId=2875 You will see that Nyenrode has the poorest employment, and quite a small percentage of international students. So, I's say it's a risky choice compared to a school with higher international mobility.&nbsp;

I have updated the post at the start of this thread with the 2023 data. It's interesting to see that the three schools I noted in 2021 as being overvalued by the FT ranking, relative to salary, are all out of the top 100 now: "Possibly over-valued schools. Lancaster, Copenhagen and Nyenrode are more highly ranked than their salaries would suggest."