Defensive much?&nbsp;<div><br>
</div><div>I invite readers to see what I have written at https://find-mba.com/board?keyword=EMIB%20ESCP&nbsp;</div><br><div>My key points are not baseless. I've given opinions about the EMIB and offer arguments (see below). You might not agree with these points, but they are well-founded.&nbsp;</div><br><div>- The EMIB isn't a state-accredited degree. A Napoleonic legacy is that in France, Italy, Spain and elsewhere, the state has a monopoly on awarding academic degrees. That means that employers have less confidence in private diplomas without that standing. I wrote that "unlike other degrees from ESCP which are government recognised, this one is not. It is comparable to the "diplômes universitaires" from the state universities, like the certificate I got for attending my French course."&nbsp;</div><br><div>- The EMIB shares the same weaknesses as other online degrees in support for career services, access to networking, uneven employer acceptance and no access to post-study work visas and funding support like the French 'Allocation'.&nbsp;<br><br>
</div><div>- The EMIB is academically light, particularly on finance. It is 60 credits compared to 120 credits for the main ESCP MSc. Compared with an MBA, subjects are missing from the core: Accounting, Economics, Finance, Operations etc are electives in the EMIB but would be in the core of an accredited MBA. That makes the EMIB attractive to a less qualified cohort: less work experience is needed, and no GMAT.<br><br></div><div>- As a result, the EMIB will have limited impact on the most common strategy of applicants on this page: people looking to move at least two out of three vectors: change role, industry and country.<br><br></div><div>Even on those threads, you can see me recommending non-UK schools, even French ones.&nbsp;<br><br></div><div>- ESCP. I describe the EMIB as one of "the best, affordable options from grandes ecoles."<br></div><br><div>- HEC https://find-mba.com/board/uk-ireland/distance-learning-mba-or-emib-67871#post-id-68038&nbsp;</div><br>The idea that my role here is to promote UK universities can be easily disproved by looking at my posts. Even personally, I studied at the Université Catholique de&nbsp;Lyon, am an alumnus of EDHEC and am currently completing an alumni-status programme at Insead.&nbsp;<br><br>The comment about Brexit is simply nationalist scapegoating in which everyone in the UK is collectively responsible for Brexit, even Irish citizens like me who voted overwhelmingly against Brexit.&nbsp;

[quote]UK-based (and we all know that this country has become a third-world country with a population that voted foolishly for Brexit)[/quote]<br><br>This is such a ridiculous statement that I don't think the rest of your post deserves a proper assessment or reply. If you want to be taken seriously, then be serious.&nbsp;

[quote][quote]UK-based (and we all know that this country has become a third-world country with a population that voted foolishly for Brexit)[/quote]<br><br>This is such a ridiculous statement that I don't think the rest of your post deserves a proper assessment or reply. If you want to be taken seriously, then be serious.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>I agree, the original poster is way off the mark.&nbsp;<br><br>Duncan has written thousands of posts on this board and answered such a wide range of questions on courses and institutions all around the world over many years. I doubt there are many people in Europe or the US who have similiarly wide knoweldge.

What's going on is that rwanchis has a more or less positive educational experience of the EMIB, and so doesn't like Duncan's criticisms. However, Duncan isn't saying that the EMIB isn't well taught, or that ESCP isn't a strong school. So, they are valuing different things.<br><br>Certainly, rwanchis is mistaken in suggesting that Executive Masters are recognised and well understood across Europe. ESCP recently pulled out from an executive master's in project management led by Politecnico di Torino. That "masters" is just 30 ECTS. If people remember, when ESCP and ESSEC launched their online masters, the component "advanced certificates" were referred to as degrees in some materials. So, there's a lot of employer confusion about these private university diplomas, and the schools themselves don't help. A great example of this are HEC's online masters in entrepreneurship, one of which leads to a real MSc degree and other, the "Executive masters", lead to a vocational BAC+5 diploma (“Diplôme en Innovation et Entrepreneuriat”). In France, certainly, this makes a big difference as you have many vocational schools like the College de Paris producing advanced vocational qualifications presented, misleadingly, as masters or doctoral degrees.&nbsp;<br><br>PS My fear is that France seems to be moving into the same swamp as Switzerland.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Duncan, thank you for your explanations. However, the fact is that you have criticized the EMIB program in many places, and in one of the posts, you even implied that the level of learning doesn't really benefit from free courses on Coursera. If someone reviews most of your posts, it can also be seen that most of your recommendations contain references to universities in the UK. I hope that my post is like a bucket of cold water on your criticism.&nbsp;<br><br><div>The fact is, I have studied hard with my cohort for two years to finish this Master's degree, and a large part of the people were already in managerial positions and chose this direction thanks to a program that I think is very good.&nbsp;<br><br></div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">Furthermore, you refer to an MBA, but EMIB is not an MBA, but an Executive Master. The truth is that universities like ESCP are more agile than most people who love the old school in the context of education, as it's not coming back. Now the program must be agile; only in the last year has ESCP introduced courses that are now trendy, like AI.&nbsp;</span><br><br><div>Finally, an Executive Master is not just a certificate, but an official document of completing a Master's degree. Yes, it's true that in some countries the Exec MSc titles are not introduced yet, but in many, they are, like Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands. In these countries, the ESCP EMIB diploma is recognized as a Master's level higher education, and you don't have to do any nostrification, etc… so to all those commenting - please take this into consideration, as not everything new is bad.</div><br><br>Thank you.

[quote]Duncan [...] even implied that the level of learning doesn't really benefit from free courses on Coursera. [/quote]<br><br>It's hard to understand what point you are making.&nbsp;<br><br>[quote]If someone reviews most of your posts, it can also be seen that most of your recommendations contain references to universities in the UK. I hope that my post is like a bucket of cold water on your criticism. [/quote]<br><br><div>You seem to be mistaken. Look at https://find-mba.com/board for example. You can see that there are a lot of posts about the UK, but also many that are not about the UK. On the non-UK posts, I went through a dozen and in none of them is Duncan recommended UK schools. In one, he recommends ESCP.&nbsp;<br><br></div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">&nbsp;[quote]Furthermore, you refer to an MBA, but EMIB is not an MBA, but an Executive Master.&nbsp; [/quote]<br><br>You seem to have missed Duncan's point: he argues that the EMIB is a lighter alternative to an MBA. You don't seem to disagree.&nbsp;<br></span><br><div>[quote]Finally, an Executive Master is not just a certificate, but an official document of completing a Master's degree. Yes, it's true that in some countries the Exec MSc titles are not introduced yet, but in many, they are, like Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands. In these countries, the ESCP EMIB diploma is recognized as a Master's level higher education, and you don't have to do any nostrification, etc… so to all those commenting - please take this into consideration, as not everything new is bad. [/quote]</div><br>No-one has commented on nostrification. Because France is in the EHEA, its qualification can indeed be recognised in other EU countries. The ESCP-Torino Executive masters will be recognised as a level 7 qualification with 30 ECTS. No-one familiar with ECTS will take 30 ECTS seriously as a masters degree.&nbsp; However, Duncan is making a different point, that many executive masters lead to private, vocational qualifications rather than state-recognised academic degrees.&nbsp; In the Netherlands, Germany and UK, for example, executive masters are state-recognised academic degrees. In other countries, like Finland, Italy and Spain, they are certainly not academic degrees. I understand that you want to justify your investment in ESCP. Were you awarded a state degree at the end of your masters? They look like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2010_Master_Histoire.pdf Perhaps you didn't get a state masters, but a private diploma. Certainly, Duncan has a good point: private diplomas are not as well respected by employers as state-accredited degrees.&nbsp;<br>

<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">@StuartHE: It seems that you don't understand that ESCP EMIB has 60 ECTS, so your point about 30 ECTS is irrelevant here. I will not compare EMIB with an MBA because there's no sense in doing so, just like comparing a BSc with an MSc. These are two different levels. I don't understand your point about a state degree, as according to what I wrote - Executive Masters are already recognized as a Master's degree in a few European countries, and over time they will be recognized in more and more countries. For this reason, top universities like ESCP or HEC are launching such programs. You can fight against this, as it seems most of you represent the academic world while making claims about the acceptance of Executive titles at companies, even though you have no idea about the corporate market. I am a manager at one of the top consulting firms, and my degree was indeed well received by our management of the board, so your points are invalid here.</span><br>

[quote]<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">I don't understand your point about a state degree, as according to what I wrote - Executive Masters are already recognized as a Master's degree in a few European countries, and over time they will be recognized in more and more countries.</span><br> [/quote]<br><br>I wrote "However, Duncan is making a different point, that many executive masters lead to private, vocational qualifications rather than state-recognised academic degrees.&nbsp; In the Netherlands, Germany and UK, for example, executive masters are state-recognised academic degrees. In other countries, like Finland, Italy and Spain, they are certainly not academic degrees."<br><br>I am not sure why you can't understand that. Right now very different things are being described as executive masters, and that leads to employer confusion. Your EMIB is 60 ECTS but the ESCP/Torino EM is 30 ECTS. In countries where the EM is most accepted are the ones where the EM leads to a state-accredited diploma. This is what a state-accredited diploma looks like at ESCP: https://www.mon-diplome.fr/Diplome/700-355055-Diplome+de+l+ESCP.jpg It's a diploma from the French Republic. Your EMIB is, presumably, not one. Maybe these pictures help?&nbsp;

<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">I understand your attempts at manipulation, but I won't be drawn into it. You pull a different direction out of nowhere, writing about 30 ECTS, but what's the connection? Yes, I agree that 30 ECTS is not a master's degree, but 60 ECTS is, and that's in accordance with European regulations, which you skillfully try to bypass.&nbsp;</span><br><br><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">You keep writing that Executive Master is not a recognized title, but as I have written above, some countries recognize this degree as normal master's studies - I recommend calling the ministries of higher education in the countries I described so that you can educate yourself, because distorting reality will not help. In conclusion, because I will not engage in further conversations with someone who manipulates, Executive Master in many countries is equivalent to a standard master's degree, and 60 ECTS is the normal level of master's studies.</span><br><br><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">All attempts to distort reality by academic dinosaurs won't change that.</span><br>

[quote]<br><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">Furthermore, you refer to an MBA, but EMIB is not an MBA, but an Executive Master. </span>&nbsp;[/quote]<br><br>Are you sure because even ESCP seem a bit confused. There's a testimonial on their website saying "it provides all what I was looking for: a MBA course with an international orientation"...&nbsp; ;-)

This is the official website: https://escp.eu/programmes/executive-masters/Executive-Master-in-international-business and there is not even a word about the MBA…

[quote]<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">You pull a different direction out of nowhere, writing about 30 ECTS, but what's the connection? [/quote]</span><br><br>The connection is ESCP. ESCP has been, until recently, a partner in delivering an Executive Masters of 30 ECTS. That has been written already. You refuse to engage with the point being made. You say that's not really an Executive Masters... okay, but your own school says it was! Can you see why there is some uncertainly among employers about what an executive masters is when it's a private diploma?&nbsp;<br><br><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">[quote]You keep writing that Executive Master is not a recognized title, but as I have written above, some countries recognize this degree as normal master's studies.&nbsp;</span>[/quote]<br><br>That's not the point being made, is it? You have mentioned that the Executive Masters is state-recognised is The Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland. Duncan has made the point that those are countries where the Executive Masters awarded are state-accredited degrees (as in the UK) rather than private diplomas (as in many Catholic countries). So the point is that private diplomas are less well accepted than state-accredited degrees.&nbsp;<br><br>I have to say: I am now repeating points made earlier which you continue to not engage with. There's no point posting on a discussion board if you won't engage with the discussion in good faith.&nbsp;

[quote]This is the official website: https://escp.eu/programmes/executive-masters/Executive-Master-in-international-business and there is not even a word about the MBA… [/quote]<br><br>Look at the curriculum tab, the quote is there from an alumni student called Esther...

<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">So you presented the opinion of a student in the field as the official statement of ESCP? Are you even serious? Nowhere in the official materials of the university is there a mention of an MBA, not to mention lectures with professors who openly say that it's a different program than an MBA. In my statement as a student, I can write that I believe that reptilians live on Earth, but that's just my opinion, not the official university's statement. Funny.</span><br>

[quote]<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">So you presented the opinion of a student in the field as the official statement of ESCP? Are you even serious? Nowhere in the official materials of the university is there a mention of an MBA, not to mention lectures with professors who openly say that it's a different program than an MBA. In my statement as a student, I can write that I believe that reptilians live on Earth, but that's just my opinion, not the official university's statement. Funny.</span><br> [/quote]<br><br>You clearly missed the winking symbol at the end of my post so the joke has gone over your head somewhat.<br><br>I have no skin in the game either way but if the programme has helped you personally to achieve your goals then that's good for you.&nbsp;

That's isn't just "a statement out in the field", though. It's a statement solicited by ESCP and endorsed by ESCP through publishing on its own website. That's a statement ESCP has *chosen* to put on the EMIB website and place on the curriculum page to infer that the EMIB has the curriculum of an MBA, though the quantitative 'meat' of an MBA curriculum is all in the electives. It's weird to suggest, considering how carefully brochures are prepared, that it's just a random statement.&nbsp;<br><br>Earlier, I mentioned the 30-ECTS "degree" offered by ESCP with Politecnico di Torino. It's also worth stating that the ESCP EMIB also included a 30-ECTS "degree" for some years. See pages 10 and 11 of the brochure at https://www.emagister.com/assets/es/course/2971515/file/95432/Brochure%20EMIB-ING%20online%202017%20web-v10.pdf&nbsp;<br><br>I also notice the warning in the brochure that: "ESCP declares that the Executive Master in International Business is a private ESCP Business School diploma.<div>This Master does not lead to an official diploma in Spain [Decree 84/2004 BOCM]."&nbsp;</div><br><div>The same warning is in this more current brochure: https://static.escpeurope.eu/pdf/multi_language/Master_EMIB_EN.pdf&nbsp;</div><br>I find it fascinating that rwanchis is still unable to engage with the fact that there is a difference between state-accredited masters degrees and private diplomas.&nbsp;<div>
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<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">I will not comment on the fact that a statement by one of the alumni is the official position of the university ;)))) but @StuartHE, I understand perfectly that an ESCP degree is a private degree from the university, and I never denied that. On the contrary, I agreed with you on this matter, but that's not the point. You are the one who doesn't want to accept the fact that some countries I mentioned, such as Germany, Switzerland, or the Netherlands, ACCEPT PRIVATE UNIVERSITY DEGREES ON PAR WITH ”OFFICIAL” ONES. This means that you can apply for a job in the public sector with such a degree. Is this clear to you now? If there is no difference at the national level and for employers, and there isn't, as I clearly wrote, why are you still attacking ESCP EMIB? I completed my BSc at one of the best universities in Europe, graduated cum laude, and I believe that this course was a great choice. Plus, once again - it has an official 60 ECTS, and what was previously the case with ESCP for other courses doesn't interest me AT ALL, as the topic concerns ESCP EMIB.</span><br>

Because you are claiming that private diplomas are accepted on par with state degrees, we can't take seriously your claim that private diplomas other than yours don't concern you. Do you think a Swiss employer will consider a 30 ECTS "degree", or even private degree without ECTS, is seen on par with a 120 ECTS state masters degree? Honestly, what a joke.&nbsp;

I would not treat 30 ECTS as Master’s degree, but this discussion is about ESCP EMIB, not the one that was made in cooperation with Università degli studi di Torino. Again, in accordance with European Union law, Master’s degree is the one between 60-120 ECTS. EMIB is 60 ECTS, private ESCP diploma, recognized in par with state-graded diploma in such a TOP countries, like Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands. Fully recognized by a TOP employee (I work for BIG4 company) and that’s all in this topic. Your only argument is the other degree with 30 ECTS, not even one argument against on what I wrote. You can call ministries of higher education in countries that I’ve mentioned and confirm that if you wish. That’s the fact and there is nothing to be added here. Hope this will open your eyes.&nbsp;