Profile Review

tgfjp

28 16

Posted Nov 27, 2019 10:20

Hi

I am applying to business schools in Europe for the full time MBA program. I need some guidance on the schools that I should target.

Snap: 31 year old Indian male with IT background

Test Scores:
GMAT: 680 (Q: 49, V: 32, AWA: 4, IR: 6)
TOEFL: 110 (R 27, W 26, S 30, L 27)
I am reasonably confident of scoring 700 if I retake GMAT.

Educational Background:

UG:
Discontinued engineering midway due to health reasons
B.Arts (English) part-time - completed (61%)

PG:
PG Diploma in Management full-time - completed (CGPA: 2.61/4.33 B). Considered equivalent to MiM/MBA

Professional Experience:
HCL Technologies - 3.5 years - Manager - Sales Operations & Strategy for BFSI vertical
Cognizant - 1 year - Manager - Management consultant for marketing team (internal)

International Exposure:
Visited US 5 times and UK once on business travel

Foreign Languages:
Elementary French - studied in high school for several years as a second language. I am absolutely fine learning German, French or any other foreign language if required.

Motivation to do MBA:
1. Global mobility, international exposure.
2. Want to move to a client facing technology consulting role in firms such as Deloitte, PwC, etc. I'm currently in an internal consulting role with limited growth and no client interface.
3. Although I hold a PG diploma in management already, I obtained it when I did not have any full-time post graduate work experience and could not extract full value. Some colleges do not accept MBA applications due to my PG, I am applying to those which do.

Targeted Schools:

Unlikely:
HEC
Oxford
Cambridge

Safe/Stretch
Manchester - applied
Durham - applied
WHU - applying
HHL - applying
Cranfield - applying
Warwick
RSM

Admit:
SMU Cox (US) - with $60,000 scholarship

Course Start: Ideally Fall 2020. Also okay for Jan 2021 or Fall 2021 if it's worth the wait for the school. No preference over 1 or 2 year MBA. 1 year would mean lower opportunity cost and two years would give sufficient time for networking.

I want to know:
1. Which of my targeted schools I have a good chance of getting into
2. Should I retake GMAT
3. Should I target some other schools. I prefer not to join US schools due to the current political climate regarding work permits and also because I don't think I have a good enough profile for any other top 15 schools.

Please suggest.

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted Nov 27, 2019 10:45

A colleague started teaching at Cox. She's impressed by it.

Take a look at:-
GMAT Tiers - strong schools for your GMAT www.find-mba.com/board/27082

Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713

How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571

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tgfjp

28 16

Posted Nov 27, 2019 11:44

A colleague started teaching at Cox. She's impressed by it.

Take a look at:-
GMAT Tiers - strong schools for your GMAT www.find-mba.com/board/27082

Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713

How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571

I was told by a current student at Cox that the learning experience is superb and that they have strong networks with the Dallas business community. Plus, there is an option to specialize in Business Analytics or Operations in the second year which makes the MBA STEM eligible. Nonetheless, I think it is too much of a risk for international students to study in the US at schools outside top 15 in the current climate. I read that there are changes expected to post study visas including STEM extensions in the near future.

[quote]A colleague started teaching at Cox. She's impressed by it.

Take a look at:-
GMAT Tiers - strong schools for your GMAT www.find-mba.com/board/27082

Best schools for international students' placement http://www.find-mba.com/board/41143

Do you need to speak the local language? www.find-mba.com/board/34713

How to use LinkedIn to find the best school www.find-mba.com/board/33571 [/quote]

I was told by a current student at Cox that the learning experience is superb and that they have strong networks with the Dallas business community. Plus, there is an option to specialize in Business Analytics or Operations in the second year which makes the MBA STEM eligible. Nonetheless, I think it is too much of a risk for international students to study in the US at schools outside top 15 in the current climate. I read that there are changes expected to post study visas including STEM extensions in the near future.

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted Nov 27, 2019 11:58

The low average GMAT at Cox also shows that it's overwhelmingly serving US students. In that context, its low score for international mobility could be forgiven. Speaking as someone who has studied at HHL and MBS, I think Cox would be a much better investment than there or Durham (which is relatively weak for international mobility).

I am concerned that the Business Analytics concentration at Cox reports placement under 80%. I'd ask to speak with a recent graduate about that. Perhaps it's just very small numbers?

PS I guess the STEM options from the ITOM department have where the international students are concentrated?

[Edited by Duncan on Nov 27, 2019]

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tgfjp

28 16

Posted Nov 27, 2019 13:07

I heard that around 10 out of ~120 students in the incoming class of 2019 at Cox are international. Apparently, the previous year there was only one international student i.e. on F1. Although, there are other people of Asian/other origin with US green cards who are studying there as well I think. Why would recruiters risk hiring internationals when they have so many local candidates at the school, especially when those recruiters are hiring only for domestic jobs (99%)?

I need to check on the number of students concentrating in BA. They started a full time MS in BA pretty long back I heard and seem to have well developed BA electives.

I am surprised to hear that Cox would be a better investment than MBS/HHL from international mobility perspective. Language barrier apart, how would WHU compare with Cox? You mentioned elsewhere that WHU serves international recruiters and its career services are also ranked well.

Also, would Warwick be a significant upgrade over MBS/Cranfield or not much of a difference in terms of placements?

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted Nov 27, 2019 21:28

>.Cox would be a better investment than MBS/HHL from an international mobility perspective.

I'd say it's a better investment overall, but maybe not from an international mobility perspective. As I say, you'd need to speak to students. I don't need to rehearse the shortage of STEM graduates in the US. There are loads of strong domestic candidates, but international students might be more able in quant areas like finance, operations etc.

WHU and Cox have similar careers services. Cox has a higher percentage of students moving quickly into work.

Cranfield and Warwick are similar in terms of % employed and international mobility. I'd pick Warwick over Cranfield if I was making a larger career transition (higher ranking and a bigger network) but Cranfield over Warwick if my focus was accelerating in my current area, because of the fourth term at Cranfield.

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tgfjp

28 16

Posted Nov 28, 2019 08:53

Got you. Thank you for taking the time out and sharing your insights.

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tgfjp

28 16

Posted Feb 05, 2020 19:33

Hi everyone,

I wanted to update on my MBA application status and check if anyone in this forum has any feedback. I have two specific questions.

I have declined offers from SMU Cox and Durham. I was denied admission at AMBS, wait listed at Edinburgh and admitted at WHU with scholarship. I have no other pending applications.

I am keen to take up the WHU offer (Sep 2020 start), but I am considering whether to ask the admissions team to defer it to the program starting in Apr 2021 since I have only started learning German recently. However, I'll be 33 at matriculation should I join the Apr 2021 cohort, whereas the avg age of the WHU cohort is 29. If I join the Sep 2020 cohort, I can try to be in Germany 30-45 days prior to the start to familiarize with the language and culture as long as I get the visa on time and if visa regulations permit. I will also enroll in an extensive weekend German course at Goethe pretty soon (my current work schedule does not provide the flexibility of joining an intensive course at the moment). So, should I join in Sep 2020 or defer to Apr 2021?

The language fluency level expected for consultancy roles has been drummed hard by various people that I spoke to (including current and former students, admissions team, and on this forum as well). As long as I can find an "MBA level job" in Germany within 6-8 months of graduation, I am fine with making the investment into the full-time MBA at WHU.

Also, from the other threads, I understand the advantages and disadvantages of WHU vs ESMT Berlin. But one key aspect that I hope to get more clarity is the international mobility ranking where ESMT is ranked extremely highly in the FT rankings (4th this year vs 9th last year for ESMT whereas WHU is at 20th). WHU on other hand is ranked higher overall, has location advantages, lower cost of living (I could be wrong on this one), better salaries in spite of a lower aged batch, better career services rank, etc. But from the international mobility rankings, it seems like ESMT is a better bet for foreign students. Can somebody please explain the basis for the same?

Thank you!
Franco

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted Feb 05, 2020 19:37

ESMT ranks higher for mobility because it's a less popular option for Germans. WHU is a better choice for traditional "West German" corporate roles.

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laurie

1.085 549

Posted Feb 10, 2020 20:51

I don't necessarily think that ESMT is a better bet for international students versus WHU.

You'd probably have more opportunities to pick up German in Vallendar/Düsseldorf than in Berlin.

Do whatever you can to work on language between now and then. Any intensive training you can get, and as much time as you can spend in the country (outside of the MBA) would help. As a non-fluent speaker, it will be a challenge to get an "MBA-level" job, but not undoable.

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umar.faroo...

1 2

Posted Mar 03, 2020 16:07

Hi Franco, All,

I am in a similar dilemma right now where i have an admit from WHU for Sep 2020 intake. However, due to some circumstances with my current employer i would like to defer by 1 semester and join the April 2021 batch.

I want to understand if there is any significant difference between the two batches? For example - class size, diversity of the class, number of international students etc. Since most of the schools in Germany start their classes from September, is there any particular disadvantage of starting in April??

Any insights will be much appreciated.

Regards,
Umar

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tgfjp

28 16

Posted Mar 04, 2020 19:51

Hi Franco, All,

I am in a similar dilemma right now where i have an admit from WHU for Sep 2020 intake. However, due to some circumstances with my current employer i would like to defer by 1 semester and join the April 2021 batch.

I want to understand if there is any significant difference between the two batches? For example - class size, diversity of the class, number of international students etc. Since most of the schools in Germany start their classes from September, is there any particular disadvantage of starting in April??

Any insights will be much appreciated.

Regards,
Umar

Hi Umar,

I am not the expert here on this topic.

I have decided to join the Sep cohort itself and intend to be in Germany as soon as my visa is processed and I plan to take up the discounted intensive language programs that Goethe offers for WHU students.

I did speak to many current and former students of WHU and neither me nor them brought up this angle (Sep vs Apr start) in our discussions. But I don't think there would be much difference in terms of diversity, number of international students, etc. WHU does not publish its class profile by Apr/Sep cohorts in their report if I'm not mistaken. Nonetheless, you can check with Sabine/Melanie from WHU.

I am not sure of the general hiring cycle in Germany (if at all it exists) but I assume it would likely be in sync with/favorable to those who graduate from the Fall batch. So that maybe a disadvantage if you plan to join in April, although I am not sure about this. You can probably connect with some of the current/former students on LinkedIn and get their views or someone better qualified on this forum can answer your question. I am also keen to know others' perspectives on this.

[quote]Hi Franco, All,

I am in a similar dilemma right now where i have an admit from WHU for Sep 2020 intake. However, due to some circumstances with my current employer i would like to defer by 1 semester and join the April 2021 batch.

I want to understand if there is any significant difference between the two batches? For example - class size, diversity of the class, number of international students etc. Since most of the schools in Germany start their classes from September, is there any particular disadvantage of starting in April??

Any insights will be much appreciated.

Regards,
Umar[/quote]

Hi Umar,

I am not the expert here on this topic.

I have decided to join the Sep cohort itself and intend to be in Germany as soon as my visa is processed and I plan to take up the discounted intensive language programs that Goethe offers for WHU students.

I did speak to many current and former students of WHU and neither me nor them brought up this angle (Sep vs Apr start) in our discussions. But I don't think there would be much difference in terms of diversity, number of international students, etc. WHU does not publish its class profile by Apr/Sep cohorts in their report if I'm not mistaken. Nonetheless, you can check with Sabine/Melanie from WHU.

I am not sure of the general hiring cycle in Germany (if at all it exists) but I assume it would likely be in sync with/favorable to those who graduate from the Fall batch. So that maybe a disadvantage if you plan to join in April, although I am not sure about this. You can probably connect with some of the current/former students on LinkedIn and get their views or someone better qualified on this forum can answer your question. I am also keen to know others' perspectives on this.

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted Mar 05, 2020 08:38

I think the pros and cons cancel each other out. Fewer schools end teaching in December, but there's also less competition for roles outside the summer. On the other hand, September means you could go into a summer internship, write your project, and stay on in a permanent role. Personally, I think the study trips are more valuable later on, as they are for the April intake.

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Inactive User

2.941 1.801

Posted Mar 10, 2020 16:14

Typically, those industries that hire MBAs in large numbers time their hiring cycles to coincide with the end of the 'normal' school year. However, this is not always the case and will depend on the industry / firm.

I would also assume that firms that have good recruiting relationships with specific schools know and work with each of the school's academic cycles.

It would be good to look at the firms / industries you are targeting to get a sense of how their hiring cycles work.

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umar.faroo...

1 2

Posted Apr 15, 2020 11:20

Hi All,

Hope everyone is safe and healthy. I wanted to update on my application status since i have an admit from MBS now.

I am a bit confused since MBS is generally rated as the top Business school in Germany, however, based on my future goals and research I don't find any significant difference between the two schools in terms of opportunities, alumni network etc. Also, with the scholarship in WHU I am paying 20% less than MBS.

Do you think that choosing MBS over WHU will be any beneficial? Any suggestions are most welcome.

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted Apr 15, 2020 11:31

The FT rankings show substantial differences between those schools on the percentage employed and the students' ratings of the careers services. I think WHU is the better choice for most MBA students.

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tgfjp

28 16

Posted Apr 15, 2020 13:24

Mannheim's average GMAT scores are higher by about 40 points compared with WHU. At least from students' perspective, MBS seems to be rated higher.

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Duncan

14.013 15.475

Posted Apr 15, 2020 14:38

Yup. If the incoming quality of the students matters to you more than the outcomes on the way out, then Mannheim is certainly the school to choose. It has a big advantage at every level (undergraduate, pre-experience and post-experience) of high higher brand awareness in the German public because it carries the name of a top state university, which part-owns the school, and the association of its sister school, the University of Mannheim, Business School (https://www.bwl.uni-mannheim.de/en/). UMBS and MBS get more applicants and generally, will have a larger cohort at every level.

WHU's main advantages are its better outcomes, better career services and the fact that most of the academic staff are full professors.

PS I'd also say that Mannheim generally has lower fees, which makes a difference in a country that isn't in the habit of paying for higher education, and as a city has a lower cost of living. There are several reasons why there's a higher supply of applicants for Mannheim, and that means that UMBS and MBS can select students with higher GMATs and better results. I think that's always been the case and, indeed, I think the gap between average GMATs used to be around 80 points. Even so, WHU generally gets better outcomes. I think that shows that the quality of the education matters, not just the quality of the intake.

[Edited by Duncan on Apr 15, 2020]

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Inactive User

2.941 1.801

Posted Apr 16, 2020 16:34

Replying to the original poster: thought a thought: If you've got some time, maybe take some time to focus on preparing for and retaking the GMAT. Getting your verbal score near your quant level will help a lot, as you will be competing with many applicants with similar backgrounds and potentially higher GMAT scores.

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tgfjp

28 16

Posted Apr 17, 2020 07:28

Replying to the original poster: thought a thought: If you've got some time, maybe take some time to focus on preparing for and retaking the GMAT. Getting your verbal score near your quant level will help a lot, as you will be competing with many applicants with similar backgrounds and potentially higher GMAT scores.

I did attempt GMAT a second time in Jan'20 and ended up with a lower score. Not keen on attempting it again. Got admit from WHU and happy to join there.

[quote]Replying to the original poster: thought a thought: If you've got some time, maybe take some time to focus on preparing for and retaking the GMAT. Getting your verbal score near your quant level will help a lot, as you will be competing with many applicants with similar backgrounds and potentially higher GMAT scores. [/quote]

I did attempt GMAT a second time in Jan'20 and ended up with a lower score. Not keen on attempting it again. Got admit from WHU and happy to join there.

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